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HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

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Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#151
post #61
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly there is a lot of legacy with the registry, but how would any of these issues be improved by moving to a file based config? All these issues could still exist under that model, and there would be new issues too. Like for example, you already point out how the type system in the registry is very limited. But isn't the filesystem even worse? Everything there is binary blobs with no types at all. So how does t…

The problem with hive is that the type has to be set correctly yet several types have no established meaning. For example it's totally random whether a number will be stored in binary with type DWORD or stored as a string (with who knows what type and encoding). However store it in a different way when writing to the registry and Windows or whatever app wants to read that field will break. In a way it's worse than if…

Don't see how this problem would be included in files. For every setting in the registry, there's a piece of software (and ultimately, a group of people behind it) that claims ownership to it, and determines the correct type for it.

File-based configs on Linux have the same problem anyway. The semantics of any config file you find are defined by the application that's consuming it. Any two config files that superficially seem to be using the same format, may in fact use a completely different one - and you'll never know, up until you edit one and it blows up in your face, because it cannot parse empty lines or #-comments, or escape characters, or negative values, or values larger than 2^16, or...

Whether altering Windows registry or a Linux config file, you cannot make a correct modification without knowing what the owners of the modified settings expect.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#152
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was working like that before, but on latest updates it automatically turns on every restart (or so). I don't really need to remove it, only disable it because it visibly slows down machine x2-x10 depending on what you do.

> It was working like that before, but on latest updates it automatically turns on every restart (or so). that's if you disable through the normal settings interface. the group policy settings stick, although you might have to turn off "tamper protection" first before applying the group policy.

Do you have any handy script for that? I am not going to click around for sure.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No thanks: the registry is a truly huge simple key/value store, which is something files-in-dirs are terrible for because almost every single one of them would take up a full block on disk instead of the fraction of a block they actually need. A better solution would be a simple database (like sqlite3) but then the immediate counter-argument is "okay, so we're done: it's already a simple database", because the regist…

I feel this mattered much more in the mid 90's when 4GB disks were common in PCs, but with today's modern storage sizes this is trivial. Besides, the NTFS MFT already stores small files directly in the indexes.

> with today's modern storage sizes this is trivial

And, because almost every vendor thinks like that, median computers of today offer worse UX than their 90's equivalents.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#154
post #23

I am legitimately not sure if this is a bug or a feature. I'll take all the side-channels I can get though. These "exploits" are really useful for regaining control over my own PC. Just yesterday I learned how to Run-As TrustedInstaller, and that let me remove a lot of unwanted bullshit on my windows 10 install.

>" for regaining control over my own PC. Just yesterday I learned how to Run-As TrustedInstaller, and that let me remove a lot of unwanted bullshit on my windows 10 install." I understand Linux, Mac, FreeBSD, Magic-Pony-OS is not everyone's cup of tea or they might not be in a position to choose their OS (Work etc) But DAMN that quote above is really showing me how bad it is out there ! Sure it can/does happen on oth…

Except this is in no way an exploit. Running processes as TrustedInstaller is no different than a user using sudo to run vim as root.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#155
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implementing the registry APIs, but backed by a regular filesystem (as Wine does) would be the sensible thing for Windows to do. (I looked at the source of Wine just now and I'm fairly sure nowhere does it process hive files.)

PowerShell exposes the hives as a directory structure, and has for a decade or more. just type "HKLM:" or whatever hive you want and start using "cd" and "dir" all you want. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/sample...

The guy who implemented that really did a disservice to the filesystem metaphor, though. Instead of making values analogous to files, they're properties of registry keys, so instead of Get/Set-Content, Get-ChildItem, etc. you need to do some gymnastics with Get/Set-ItemProperty to work with them. For example, if you want to find a registry value with a particular name, you can't just do 'dir -rec SomeValueName' to find it like you can on the filesystem provider.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been spending the last 48 hours strongly pondering Linux as a daily driver. If it wasn't for my crippling visual studio addiction, I'd probably be able to swap all my PCs over, with the exception of the one bastard stepchild win10 that I will keep in the closet for when BF2042 is released. Virtualization is another option that I am investigating actively now. I could even see the path for getting our product off…

I've found VSCode and dotnet 5/core be amazingly liberating from the the slow bloated mess that is Visual Studio and the old .NET Framework. This is the way it should have always been, but I'm happy we finally got here.

VSCode has plenty of MS telemetry, and some plugins do too. VSCodium refers to some of the issues removing telemetry here: https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/DOCS.md#get...

https://adtmag.com/articles/2021/04/21/vscodium-strips-msft-...

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#157
post #23

I am legitimately not sure if this is a bug or a feature. I'll take all the side-channels I can get though. These "exploits" are really useful for regaining control over my own PC. Just yesterday I learned how to Run-As TrustedInstaller, and that let me remove a lot of unwanted bullshit on my windows 10 install.

Yeah, it was the only way to remove defender. Then I used debloaters and shutup10 to remove all other "features". Windows didn't like it and returned ALL of them on update. Now I disabled update, and are totally motivated to go back to linux. Luckily all the tools I use on Windows are x-platform and with PowerShell, vscode, sql server etc. on linux and games working nothing holds me any more. I will probably miss Aut…

[deleted]

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the real tragedy is iPhone. No sideloading I’m so tired of seeing folks parroting no sideloading on iOS. That’s not been true for a long time. Yes, the conditions of side loading (needs a free developer account, must have app signing refreshed weekly, etc) might not be palatable for your taste (which I’d generally agree), but to say it’s not possible to sideload apps on a stock iOS device is just wrong.

IMO, saying "no side-loading" is as good as correct, and getting technical about it just creates confusion and muddies the waters. Unless you're paying $99 per year for a developer account, what little sideloading Apple offers is completely useless for anything but limited testing. Who wants to reinstall an app they actually use every seven days? The semi-exception is Altstore, which is a fantastic project... but it'…

I don't see how you can say with a straight face that getting technical just creates confusion and muddled waters when side-loading is already something that mainly technical users do. It just seems like a lazy way to dismiss valid criticism. The vast majority of users don't side-load on their phones or have any interest in learning to do so. Side-loading is already technical.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#159
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO if you expand PC to cover mobile computing, the real tragedy is iPhone. No sideloading, very restrictive app store policies, and no custom OSes at all. At least with a Windows desktop or laptop, you can run Linux or one of the other actually free OSes. Modern MacOS is also pretty unfriendly for developers and power users, but at least Apple is somewhat aligned with users on privacy and security, unlike Microsoft.

> the real tragedy is iPhone. No sideloading I’m so tired of seeing folks parroting no sideloading on iOS. That’s not been true for a long time. Yes, the conditions of side loading (needs a free developer account, must have app signing refreshed weekly, etc) might not be palatable for your taste (which I’d generally agree), but to say it’s not possible to sideload apps on a stock iOS device is just wrong.

I built myself a custom calculator 5 years ago for my Android phone. I've reinstalled it once in that time frame, and that only after switching phones. Other than that, it's just there when I need it, with 0 maintenance in 5 years.

Were I to switch to an iPhone, I would have to either list my calculator on the app store (and pay the yearly developer fee) or have to remember every single week to "refresh" my app, otherwise it won't work the next time I need it.

Android has side loading. iOS has the bare minimum concession to allow developers to build something at all, and even that has unnecessary friction built in explicitly so that people don't try to use it to sideload.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, saying "no side-loading" is as good as correct, and getting technical about it just creates confusion and muddies the waters. Unless you're paying $99 per year for a developer account, what little sideloading Apple offers is completely useless for anything but limited testing. Who wants to reinstall an app they actually use every seven days? The semi-exception is Altstore, which is a fantastic project... but it'…

I don't see how you can say with a straight face that getting technical just creates confusion and muddled waters when side-loading is already something that mainly technical users do. It just seems like a lazy way to dismiss valid criticism. The vast majority of users don't side-load on their phones or have any interest in learning to do so. Side-loading is already technical.

Those are two different definitions of technical. When you accuse someone of "getting technical", it has a very specific meaning: It means that they're overemphasizing the dictionary definition at the cost of more practical considerations. That's exactly what's happening here, by calling what Apple allows on iPhone "sideloading". Yes, technically, you are able to get an app on your phone without going through the app store. But without a paid developer account, the fact that you have to reinstall weekly is intentionally designed to make that impractical for actual use.
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