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Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in the healthcare sector. I tend to come across FTP urls related to my industry often. Usually from .gov sites.

The healthcare sector should be using secure technologies like TLS/HTTPS. If anything that's an argument for this change, since misuse of FTP remains rampant.

I don’t disagree. I’m simply pointing out it’s still used. That severing links and arguing in favor of that by saying “no one uses it” is inaccurate.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#152
post #147
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps if it only supported anonymous ftp. That's most of the links that will get broken. For that, there is no real security consideration. What exists is plain text all around with deliberately exposed passwords.

That is not what Mozilla is claiming: > The biggest security risk is that FTP transfers data in cleartext, allowing attackers to steal, spoof and even modify the data transmitted. I don't know how realistic that type of attack is and compromised authentication is likely worse, but both are cases that Mozilla cannot fix since they are inherent to the protocol itself.

I guess, but they aren't deprecating http downloads, which have the same problem as anonymous ftp.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked FTP was part of the web?

Nope, literally not. It's an internet service, sure, but not the web.

The World Wide Web (WWW), commonly known as the Web, is an information system where documents and other web resources are identified by Uniform Resource Locators (URLs, such as https://example.com/), which may be interlinked by hyperlinks, and are accessible over the Internet.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#155
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with removing FTP support, I also agree that phrasing is pretty disgusting.

Describing ads ("sponsored tiles") as "user-enhancing" is arguably worse. https://twitter.com/dherman76/status/433320156496789504

https://archive.vn/eawIS

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#156
post #36

I don't understand all the negativity around this. People complained when Firefox added Pocket, in part because they took a browser extension and made it a feature that was ostensibly unrelated to web browsing. Now they're taking an old feature that's definitely not related to web browsing and removing it, and people are still complaining? Firefox can't be everything. It should focus on being a great browser and not…

To note that Pocket was related to web browsing and offered a convenient bookmarking system. The reason people complain is it being a third-party extension and service (requiring registration even) rather built-in features in the web browser.

That said some functionality has been included in bookmarks such as clicking favorite button saves directly in unsorted, clicking twice opens a menu where tags can be added, and can see all bookmarks through menu. A secondary bookmarks tree can be added with extra features being read status, and simple status change and deletion from menu without requiring right click. Kinda like Chrome did it.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#157

Lots of places like US federal institutions or universities use FTP to this day to distribute their open datasetes. Show me an example of actual FTP MITM hack in the wild. Sure loading FTP resources from HTTP(S) context is not a good idea (as would be downloading executables over FTP), but did they actually make any effort to inform the public and owners of FTP servers? I do not think so, I haven't seen it. Mozilla t…

Even though I love Firefox and I think it's vital for the web, I can't really in good conscience support Mozilla when it keeps shooting itself in the foot times and times again.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#158
post #129
post #36

I don't understand all the negativity around this. People complained when Firefox added Pocket, in part because they took a browser extension and made it a feature that was ostensibly unrelated to web browsing. Now they're taking an old feature that's definitely not related to web browsing and removing it, and people are still complaining? Firefox can't be everything. It should focus on being a great browser and not…

FTP has been related to web browsing since the beginning of the web 31 years ago. For maybe a decade (the first third of the web so far), most of the WWW was on FTP servers—not just most software downloads, but also most HTML pages. Web browsers are a much better interface to FTP servers than dedicated FTP clients, because you can click a link on an HTML page (either a statically generated directory, possibly on the…

Firefox didn't support directly opening and rendering HTML files via ftp:// URLs anyways, it'd just download them like a normal FTP client. I can't even remember the last browser I used that supported that. You can't kill what has been dead for decades already.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#159
post #91

Reminds me of Apple removing the headphone jack and being so proud of themselves for "being brave". Just yesterday I found a link to FTP while researching something. Was pretty annoying to go get another FTP client up and running to get it. Anyway, the movement away from unencrypted protocols to TLS-only is moving us closer to a fully censored internet. Sure, an unencrypted internet did not have any integrity guarant…

But Apple removed it to charge Mord for dedicated headphones. While Mozilla removes it to delete a Malware vector and/or save programming resources.

> While Mozilla removes it to delete a Malware vector and/or save programming resources.

Malware vector, really? When was the last time FTP was a major malware distribution channel as opposed to, you know, plain http? And I don't buy the "save programming resources" argument either. FTP is an old, simple and stable protocol, it's not like there's much need to touch that code.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#160
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's old, but "ftp://" is a valid uri scheme that has established use, and lots of valid links on existing, live web pages. Browsers removing support are breaking part of the web that was working fine.

No, they're breaking with accessing a part of the internet that web browsers used to support, an no one does anymore. They are most certainly not break the web itself. These are different things: if you need FTP (and let's be real: you don't), then as a user you still have TONS of options available to you, and as a host even legacy systems using ancient versions of Apache can already serve file listings as standard w…

>> Your web browser doesn't need to support FTP.

Your browser doesn't NEED to natively support .pdf but it does and you've probably used that feature. I mean you could have it launch an external .pdf viewer, which is a FAR more complex piece of software than the little FTP protocol code they're disabling here.

Your browser doesn't NEED to support TABs. Your OS is already equipped with the ability to run multiple instances.

Your browser doesn't NEED to sandbox anything, you could just run each instance in it's own VM.

Your browser doesn't NEED to play video, it could launch an external viewer.

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