Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning • Hacker News Board

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#151

Post by dangom » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

bb2018 wrote: post #37

jacquesm wrote: post #3

One of those cases here. Symptoms: suddenly out of energy, occasionally suddenly being unable to spell, even mild physical exercise leaves me floored (and I was pretty fit for my age prior to this). So, 17 months in: it's still not back to where it used to be but if you think of it in terms of trends instead of absolutes it is definitely still improving. The downs are less far down, the fog is lifting and the energy…

I do wonder if this is proportional to your symptoms/proportional to other ailments. For instance, is someone with Covid (who was on the verge of needing oxygen) more likely to have long term symptoms than someone the same age who got the flu/pneumonia (and was also on the verge of needing oxygen). In other words - is there something unique about Covid? Or is that any disease that sets you back has serious long-term…

The SARS-CoV-2 virus binds to a specific receptor (ACE2) that is expressed in a multitude of different cells in our bodies, most curiously the endothelial cells that line up your vessels. Some hypothesis suggest that the disruption of the systems associated with ACE2 is what causes downstream effects that lead to symptoms of COVID. By virtue of infecting blood vessels, the virus can cause them to stop functioning properly, and thus impair the supply of oxygen to otherwise healthy tissue. These hypoxic microlesions, which have been found even in the brain of patient populations, could in turn be responsible for some of the sequelae that the infection leaves behind after the end of acute period of the disease.

The extent to which damage is caused, and the extent to which the body can recover will evidently dictate the period of convalescence. Because symptoms vary wildly from case to case, pinpointing general routes of treatment or estimating the duration of recovery is a highly complex problem.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#152

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

Amezarak wrote: post #115

jacquesm wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I'm not a complete idiot. - pandemic in progress: check - risky lifestyle: check (as in very frequent air travel for work) - symptoms: O2 level drop, fluid in lungs, persistent cough, extreme tiredness, dizzyness, loss of smell/taste check all of these, and the rest, fortunately not. Later on: crazy beating heart for no particular reason, losing weight steadily but more slowly now. Decision not to test was ma…

I don't think GP was suggesting you were dumb, just trying to point out there's a lot of widespread respiratory illnesses with exactly the same symptoms that are endemic - not to say Covid isn't more severe at a population level, but that you can't really say with any kind of certainty based only on those symptoms that someone has Covid. A few years ago I had exactly these symptoms, plus a high fever, but in my case,…

Yes, but the flu season in 2020 pretty much didn't happen and COVID did. So in your case the even money would be on it not being COVID 'a few years ago' but if it had happened in March up to today of 2020/2021 then probably it would be.

GP is playing silly games and I'm a bit tired of those given my rather personal engagement with this particular virus, and frankly, if it is some other kind of virus then it hardly matters now, does it?

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#153

Post by fragmede » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

satysin wrote: post #126

mygoodaccount wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another one here (Woman, 24 y.o.). Contracted COVID, had a terrible three-weeks of infection. Nine months later, I am having weekly heart palpitations, I'm constantly fatigued and fogged in the mind and my lung capacity is half what it used to be - I now require an inhaler to go on my runs. I know several women my age experiencing far worse. Long COVID should not be ignored.

I am having daily heart palpitations and they are almost unbearable now. Sometimes I wake up and feel fine almost all day but not a day has gone by in the past two months where I don't have some kind of chest discomfort around my sternum/xiphoid process. I have had a whole bunch of scans and everything is normal. I will be having an endoscopy next week to hopefully get to the bottom of it. I am 'hoping' it is somethi…

Have you managed to get medication (aka beta blockers) for the palpations? I am not a doctor but I strongly recommend getting a doctor to prescribe you some if you haven't already.

What's been particularly frustrating with long covid is because it's so new, I've had to have awkward pushy conversations with doctors to get me treatment I deserve. You can't get high off beta blockers, which helps assuage my feelings of being an addict engaging in drug seeking behavior, simply trying to get my heart rate under control, but the medical industry has largely failed patients here. The only reprieve is that enough healthcare professionals also got sick, so the fact that there's nothing that shows up on scans of my heart isn't taken as fact that there's nothing wrong with it.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#154

Post by disabled » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

_y5hn wrote: post #144

mygoodaccount wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for lung capacity: I used to play saxophone pretty fanatically and I think that is one of the reasons I got through this with a relatively low amount of damage. Funnily enough, I used to play the flute and sing before contracting COVID. With my lung capacity halved, my ability is nowhere near what it used to be. Long COVID has taken all my hobbies away from me: running, singing, hip-hop dancing. If anyone knows…

Breathing exercises and meditation/yoga may help, both with heart and lungs. Worth a try along with long covid support/meetups.

Yep. I do breathing exercises daily. It helps with the dysautonomia (long covid causes dysautonomia) too.

You may want to look into the Airofit Pro: https://www.airofit.com/

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#155

Post by satysin » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #153

satysin wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am having daily heart palpitations and they are almost unbearable now. Sometimes I wake up and feel fine almost all day but not a day has gone by in the past two months where I don't have some kind of chest discomfort around my sternum/xiphoid process. I have had a whole bunch of scans and everything is normal. I will be having an endoscopy next week to hopefully get to the bottom of it. I am 'hoping' it is somethi…

Have you managed to get medication (aka beta blockers) for the palpations? I am not a doctor but I strongly recommend getting a doctor to prescribe you some if you haven't already. What's been particularly frustrating with long covid is because it's so new, I've had to have awkward pushy conversations with doctors to get me treatment I deserve. You can't get high off beta blockers, which helps assuage my feelings of…

Last week my doctor prescribed me something called Stresam (aka Etifoxine). Apparently it is a lot like the benzo Lorazepam (Ativan) but without the whole benzo addiction problem.

I had never heard of it nor know anyone on it before but apparently it is good. Too early for me to say if it is personally. I want to avoid any kind of addictive medication if possible.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#156

Post by disabled » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

satysin wrote: post #126

mygoodaccount wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another one here (Woman, 24 y.o.). Contracted COVID, had a terrible three-weeks of infection. Nine months later, I am having weekly heart palpitations, I'm constantly fatigued and fogged in the mind and my lung capacity is half what it used to be - I now require an inhaler to go on my runs. I know several women my age experiencing far worse. Long COVID should not be ignored.

I am having daily heart palpitations and they are almost unbearable now. Sometimes I wake up and feel fine almost all day but not a day has gone by in the past two months where I don't have some kind of chest discomfort around my sternum/xiphoid process. I have had a whole bunch of scans and everything is normal. I will be having an endoscopy next week to hopefully get to the bottom of it. I am 'hoping' it is somethi…

This sounds like dysautonomia.

I have dysautonomia, which I had long before (probably) getting COVID-19. I have a rare form of dysautonomia. But, dysautonomia does happen, relatively frequently, as post-viral cases.

The good news is that post-viral dysautonomia has high potential for improving and even (realistically) going away. Rest will be the best treatment.

Check my profile if you want to email me or want help.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#157

Post by lambdaba » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

krastanov wrote: post #120

lambdaba wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this is taken the right way, but have you tried "vitamins" (broadly speaking)? Some I have seen with specific effects: Niacin, Black Seed Oil (Nigella Sativa), Magnesium megadoses, etc. etc. Don't dismiss these as "quack medicines", I've recovered from severe chronic illness thanks to some of these... I could expand if people ask, but really it's quite easy, especially for the HN crowd, to level-up rapidly on…

> [edit] here come the downvotes, for those that do, note that downvotes, at least on HN, are not meant to express disagreement, they are meant for content that is objectionable for other reasons. This is factually wrong. Search for posts by dang frequently explaining traditions and norms in this forum, including the downvote very much being a standard way to express disagreement (although it is better to voice your…

I didn't know that, frankly I remember reading, many years ago, people saying that downvotes are not meant to express disagreement. Maybe that changed, I personally don't agree with this and only consider downvoting if someone is not being civil, is not interested in discussion, or really voicing something obviously false. I was careful with my comment, I'm not selling anything, I was just interested in maybe nudging some people towards this information.

[edit] seems I'm not the only one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19406299

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#158

Post by johnchristopher » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

disabled wrote: post #140

jacquesm wrote: post #3

One of those cases here. Symptoms: suddenly out of energy, occasionally suddenly being unable to spell, even mild physical exercise leaves me floored (and I was pretty fit for my age prior to this). So, 17 months in: it's still not back to where it used to be but if you think of it in terms of trends instead of absolutes it is definitely still improving. The downs are less far down, the fog is lifting and the energy…

In my early 30s: Pretty sure I had COVID-19 in early March 2020. I had shortness of breath for a couple of days and I was feverish for about 8 weeks. Afterwards, I have severe fatigue. I also experienced bouts, off an on for like a week or two at a time, where I could not physically get warm, and I was freezing to death, no matter what I did. I also have severe dysautonomia (autonomic nervous system dysfunction) whic…

Which Garmin watch model do you have ?

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#159

Post by clairity » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #103

clairity wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Because I'm not a complete idiot.” yah, it’s the partial idiots who are hard to discern. complete idiots are the easiest to dismiss out of hand. many infections have long lasting effects. you’d need to systematically rule them out/in via testing to be as certain as you claim to be.

Right, well let's just say that coincidentally I had a viral infection that has the exact same symptoms as COVID, has the same long term effects as are reported in many cases of COVID and which coincidentally happened to be timed to match the first wave of that particular pandemic, but according to you it wasn't COVID when it wasn't confirmed as such with a test. Consider the alternative: you would have to come up wi…

that’s being overly invested in the idea that it’s covid rather than realizing that infections of all kinds have long-lasting effects. individually and societally, that leads to a distortion of attention and resources to the wrong things. i.e., partial idiocy, the worst kind, and unfortunately rampant.

there is a real opportunity now for medical science to look comparatively at infectious diseases and attack them systematically and cohesively rather than myopically. hopefully we don’t squander that.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#160

Post by timr » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #150

timr wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From personal experience, the symptoms being described by all of the posts on this thread overlap substantially with depression and anxiety. It's notable that the GP went to the hospital and was diagnosed with a possible panic attack. Panic attacks frequently cause your heart to race, skip, etc. Depression causes "brain fog" and fatigue, body aches, etc. So far, ~all of the reports of "long covid" are anecdotal and p…

Oh, I know when I was depressed (also as a teenager, but a few years after that). That was a different time and I can talk about that if you like. But what hit me back then was definitely not depression and/or anxiety. It was some mysterious illness that took me out for a week (kinda typical), but then made me unable to "breath normally" for literally months. It was innately a physical condition: unable to breath, un…

> But what hit me back then was definitely not depression and/or anxiety. It was some mysterious illness that took me out for a week (kinda typical), but then made me unable to "breath normally" for literally months. It was innately a physical condition: unable to breath, unable to sleep well, unable to feel physically good for months at a time.

Sure. Pneumonia can easily cause that. It takes a long time to recover from it, even if you're young.

Fundamentally, "covid" is pneumonia caused by a particular virus, so it's not surprising that people (esp. people who had serious cases) might have similar kinds of lingering symptoms.