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Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap
151–160 of 211 posts
Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap
#152I've been working in the payments industry on and off for 15 years. I am yet to work with a payment method that does not support reversal (except for physical cash). As a last resort victims can file chargeback with their issuers or police. To begin with there are several layers of protection built in at acquirer, issuer, network and so on. Almost at each step there's an option to reverse the payment (or issue a comp…
Payment reversal is an open invitation to criminals to steal from sellers. A friend of mine had his laptop stolen via payment reversal. Listed it on Craigslist for sale, a woman paid by PayPal and then came by to pick it up, and after she left she reversed the payment. PayPal automatically took her side because he didn't have a shipping tracking number. Cashier's-check scams are another classic form of this crime: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/8/19/20808526/cashiers-ch... https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-spot-avoid-and-rep...
Obviously any payment method that is a layer over credit cards and US bank transactions is going to want to support reversal; otherwise, in cases like these, the payment processor gets left holding the bag. It's not "the result of decades of learnings and trial and error." It's the result of banking regulations which impose huge risks on anyone who receives money through the banking and credit card system, in order to avoid imposing risks on people who send money.
In many cases, those risks are not inherent to the transaction being conducted; they are introduced by outdated banking business practices that rely on detecting rare frauds after the fact and clearing transactions over the course of weeks or months. Instead of removing the risks, current banking regulations force them on anyone who receives a payment, so the banks don't have to fix them. Cryptocurrencies just remove those risks instead of externalizing them.
And that's why so many payment methods support reversal.
Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Paying by cash is irreversible. That’s how payments were until credit cards and the Internet came along. One of the big innovations of cryptocurrency is allowing for electronic, cash-like payments. To solution to coercing a “reversal” of a transaction is use the legal system.
One of the big innovations of non-crypto payment methods over cash was the ability to reverse. > To solution to coercing a “reversal” of a transaction is use the legal system. Or, just maybe, we could have a system which doesn't need to involve the legal system every time, and protects consumers anyway. Which we have.
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Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suppose you can have a spend wallet and a net worth wallet.
This is all too complicated for all but a handful of people. Crypto just doesn't work. It's far more harm than good. Every time a weakness is unveiled, we get hand waving from those most invested. It's bad for the environment, bad for crime, bad for laymen, undemocratic (vote with money), no knobs to adjust monetary/fiscal policy, and it poses as an alternative to government institutions that serve society with thing…
> It's bad for the environment
Not any more so than other forms of energy consumption. If anything, Bitcoin incentivizes the use of clean renewable energy. https://niccarter.info/topics/
> bad for crime
Hard to even parse what that means given how much crime is committed via dollars. https://unchained-capital.com/blog/bitcoin-is-not-for-crimin...
> bad for laymen
Meaningless drivel.
> undemocratic (vote with money)
Bitcoin is both undemocratic AND is not a "vote with money" type of system. Governance is unrelated to who holds it. https://www.lopp.net/bitcoin-information/governance.html
> no knobs to adjust monetary/fiscal policy
That's a feature.
> it poses as an alternative to government institutions that serve society with things like roads and health care.
Also a feature. https://www.coincenter.org/a-human-rights-activists-response...
Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the issue is that the bank probably gets a lot of legitimate phone calls like that. $500 is the kind of money you can need urgently and where failing closed would be a major inconvinience.
"Good customer service" is indistinguishable from vulnerability to social engineering.
I think you are only seeing one side of the issue here. Getting drugged out of your mind and telling strangers your mother maiden name and the name of your childhood pet is just not that common of an occurence. The rare lost $500 may be a worthwhile price to pay, to be able to access your money in a pinch.
Now when we get to 4-digit sums, the balance starts to shift to caution.
Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Are there plans to build equivalent features on Blockchain for crypto currencies? Basically every crypto enthusiast out there touts the non-reversibility of crypto transactions as its primary feature , not a bug, and that is why I see crypto as generally useless for your average person.
Banks basically act as escrow service, and it's not difficult to build this feature with smart contracts (as long as vendor is comfortable with the money being held by Escrow for a period of time, say a month).
So, in other words, build in all the parts of the modern banking system into crypto, which was specifically designed to be decentralized without a single arbiter of the correctness of transactions. Talk about the worst of all possible worlds...
At the end of the day, there is a fundamental judgement call when it comes to disputes: was the product "substantially not as described"? who has better evidence? etc. Once you put an arbiter in the middle, making this decision (which, again, I argue is an essential point of the modern financial system) the entire raison d'etre of crypto goes away.
Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
What information in particular did I give away? This is important to me, please let me know.
You implied that your biggest fear is getting your crypto stolen which implies that you have crypto to steal. From your comment history someone could now attempt to find your real world identity: you use a Samsung phone, you went to engineering school, you run a website, etc.
Gross, I won't buy Samsung products
;)
Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap
#158While the article seems part-advertisement, the risk is real. Best not to let strangers know your worth, and use multi-factor authentication everywhere. It's a disgusting (and beautiful) world we live in!
>Best not to let strangers know your worth
Bitcoin has no privacy by default, so that's not going to work unless people never transact
Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a person living in an authoritarian state, the inability of the government or other authority to reverse a payment looks like a very attractive feature to me. Yes, it does have downsides. They just don't look as troublesome as being completely cut off all financial services with a simple stroke of a pen - which was experienced by many members of political opposition in my country. "... but but Drugs! Criminals!" i…
This is really the heart of the matter. On hand , yay, great we can subvert nasty states using cryptocoin, but also could undermine legitimate democracies. Swords cuts both ways. No one can deny the wave of ransomware and cryptocoin are not related. How do we balance it so it can provide a net positive for humanity?
Yeah, nobody ever asked for ransom before cryptocoins. /s
Legitimate democracy can't be undermined by an international currency not controlled be the government. In fact, it can be reinforced by it.
This issue is very similar to free speech: the good it does by making the government unable to silence political opponents far outweights the harm done by extremists and lunatics of all sorts.
Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Good customer service" is indistinguishable from vulnerability to social engineering.
I think you are only seeing one side of the issue here. Getting drugged out of your mind and telling strangers your mother maiden name and the name of your childhood pet is just not that common of an occurence. The rare lost $500 may be a worthwhile price to pay, to be able to access your money in a pinch. Now when we get to 4-digit sums, the balance starts to shift to caution.
One, yes. It was a fair amount for a hard lesson IMO. But also keep in mind that these people were extremely smooth, confident, and "professional". It was a technique, they were not improvising.
The only reason you think this is not a common occurrence is because people don't talk about it, very much like women who are sexually harassed are not vocal about being taken advantage of. Hey, now I know how it feels.
I don't talk about it, but I chose to because the top post suggested that somehow the information that you give out is always under your control. It's not, and this sort of scheme/robbery happens ALL the time.