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Why North America's killer heat scares me

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#151

Post by ZoomerCretin »

morpheos137 wrote: post #144
taylorlapeyre wrote: post #47

I recommend the book “Unsettled” by Steven Koonan for a more empirical look at how these computer models work, and the deficiencies of trying to predict catastrophe with them. For instance, every climate model is wildly off when it tries to predict the climate changes starting in 1950. This article reads like a typical scare piece. The truth is, there’s just so many feedback loops in climate that we just don’t know w…

There are many other feedback effects too, for example plants grow more massive faster in warmer temperatures and with higher fractions of CO2 in the atmosphere. Despite many hysterical media reports conflating global climate change with regional droughts this can not be a global effect, higher temperatures, instead, lead to greater percipation from greater water vapour production. Thus higher temperatures at lower l…

You think climate science being driven by vague interests from every boogeyman the right gives you is more credible than the trillion dollar a year fossil fuel industry funding climate change denialism?

None of what you said is sourced. You are not a climatologist, nor are you a meteorologist. Unless you have some credential that allows you to speak from a position of authority, your words have zero value unless you have the sources to back them up. All of the science backs up climate change. Politicians and “tHe mEdIa” don’t have any interest at all in advancing policies to mitigate climate change beside a personal interest in enjoying a livable climate in the latter part of this century, as shown by how little they actually pay attention to this issue.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#152

Post by taylorlapeyre »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #151
morpheos137 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many other feedback effects too, for example plants grow more massive faster in warmer temperatures and with higher fractions of CO2 in the atmosphere. Despite many hysterical media reports conflating global climate change with regional droughts this can not be a global effect, higher temperatures, instead, lead to greater percipation from greater water vapour production. Thus higher temperatures at lower l…

You think climate science being driven by vague interests from every boogeyman the right gives you is more credible than the trillion dollar a year fossil fuel industry funding climate change denialism? None of what you said is sourced. You are not a climatologist, nor are you a meteorologist. Unless you have some credential that allows you to speak from a position of authority, your words have zero value unless you…

If you want to stand behind the science, then you must also stand behind the fact that our climate models are faulty and inaccurate. I say that as a climate activist myself.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#153

Post by hooplah »

adamcstephens wrote: post #150
hooplah wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you truly believe it's this dire, does it matter? It's up to that country to cut emissions even if they accept that job on behalf of other countries. But first, lets start on just not dumping plastic into oceans, building more coal plants, and generally not cutting emissions at all (China) Then we can worry on the manufacturing like cement and steel (I believe we should make our own steel anyway) The more stuff we…

What makes you think the US gives a shit either? Companies have spent the last forty years moving manufacturing out of the country because it lets them profit a bit more. They don’t give a shit about climate change unless they can make more money off it. I’m all for bringing manufacturing back on-shore, but what makes you think the lobbyists will stop trying to undermine environmental regulations if we do? I consider…

> What makes you think the US gives a shit either?

Because we cut our emissions by a lot while increasing energy output & manufacturing, and it's many people's #1 issue.

I don't remember hearing about climate change in the CCP's 100 year anniversary speech, just bloody head bashing rhetoric.

Other countries outsource to China as well, why haven't they been cutting their emissions, there's only 12 countries or so that have.

You can hand-wave China away ignoring the numbers, or how much we send over there, what they are creating, how they are creating it, but you aren't doing the Earth any favor.

All of that doesn't address their new coal factories or plastic dumping either. Let's get a handle on that. Then let's worry about the manufacturing emissions as we don't even have alternative solutions for concrete or steel yet. Fair?

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#154

Post by JohnWhigham »

matsemann wrote: post #97
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| Climate Change is always my #1 priority when voting in elections If every climate change candidate you favored for won in the US and Canada the impact on climate would be near zero. Why? Because China, Vietnam, India and Indonesia are now the majority contributors to emissions and they don't care about your agenda. Such are the unintended consequences of progressive agendas. We regulated 'dirty' businesses out of e…

I disagree. Force people to pay for the externalities their actions have. Like buying electronics from China could have a tax based on how polluting it is. Then factories will either get better to win on price, or someone might build a factory elsewhere and actually be able to compete.

Tarriffs aren't enough. Most companies/consumers will just eat the costs. You need the federal government to start actively supporting building things back home, which personally I don't think will be possible for at least a generation. Too many people are addicted to the lifestyle NAFTA enabled.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#155

Post by morpheos137 »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #151
morpheos137 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many other feedback effects too, for example plants grow more massive faster in warmer temperatures and with higher fractions of CO2 in the atmosphere. Despite many hysterical media reports conflating global climate change with regional droughts this can not be a global effect, higher temperatures, instead, lead to greater percipation from greater water vapour production. Thus higher temperatures at lower l…

You think climate science being driven by vague interests from every boogeyman the right gives you is more credible than the trillion dollar a year fossil fuel industry funding climate change denialism? None of what you said is sourced. You are not a climatologist, nor are you a meteorologist. Unless you have some credential that allows you to speak from a position of authority, your words have zero value unless you…

I don't need to be a meterologist or climate scientist to know that higher average temperatures mean more water vapor production (see high school physics vapor pressure is a function of temperature) and since what goes up must come down more vapor means more percipation on a global scale. So we can categorically say climate change does not cause drought on a global scale. It may cause regional droughts.

Increased percipitation as snow in polar regions increases the albedo of the earth. Clouds may increas the albedo of the earth depending on their altitude and composition.

You also provide no scientific sources and basically appeal to the supposed scientific authority of the media. The media is not a scientific authority. It is propaganda and entertainment. Anyway I don't have time for a flamewar. People should know though that the feedback effects of global warming and increased CO2 are unknown and difficult to model.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#156

Post by lcall »

While it is important to be good stewards and not pollute etc, I don't think we are competent to solve climate issues as a whole, when we can't trust each other to keep our word (so much of the time), and especially when we have rejected much specific advice of the planet's Creator.

At the same time, things can be OK for us in the long run, if we really try to learn what we should do, and do that. I would include praying, honesty, kindness and humility (willingness to learn) among those things. Really there is good reason for hope for the best; these problems are expected now.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#157

Post by ZoomerCretin »

jude- wrote: post #137

It's all well and good for us folks in the West to talk about reducing consumption, but the reality check we need to hear is that the "West" is no more than 20% of humanity (give or take, depending on how you count). Like it or not, the remainder of humanity is rapidly industrializing. First, no amount of lifestyle changes in the West is going to offset the pollution and environmental degradation this could cause. Se…

> Housing sounds like a tough political problem at first, but few people will say no to a policy of "everyone -- rich or poor -- gets a free condo." Even existing homeowners would take a second home in a big city, even if all they do is use it for storage or weekend visits.

The problem is almost always local opposition. Looking at California, we see huge moneyed sue-happy NIMBYism that fights rabidly against any new building, even going as far as having dilapidated buildings and their parking lots declared “historical” to avoid redevelopment. The most progressive state in the nation with a Democratic supermajority trifecta is currently fighting tooth and nail to allow single family homes to be split into duplexes. How do you think this fight is going to go in red states?

Cities are built out. We can’t build condos without bulldozing something else, and that requires someone else to be displaced. Those someones vote for a city council members which ban apartments, condos, and anything that isn’t a SFH with at least three parking spaces.

We’ve under-built 5.6 million housing units since 2008, and as a result, housing prices are now unaffordable even in southern cities like Dallas. The housing crisis is exactly as tough of a political problem as it sounds.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#159

Post by adamcstephens »

hooplah wrote: post #153
adamcstephens wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think the US gives a shit either? Companies have spent the last forty years moving manufacturing out of the country because it lets them profit a bit more. They don’t give a shit about climate change unless they can make more money off it. I’m all for bringing manufacturing back on-shore, but what makes you think the lobbyists will stop trying to undermine environmental regulations if we do? I consider…

> What makes you think the US gives a shit either? Because we cut our emissions by a lot while increasing energy output & manufacturing, and it's many people's #1 issue. I don't remember hearing about climate change in the CCP's 100 year anniversary speech, just bloody head bashing rhetoric. Other countries outsource to China as well, why haven't they been cutting their emissions, there's only 12 countries or so that…

I’m not hand waving China’s emissions away, and explicitly said they can and should do more. If and when they decide to deal with the problem, I expect they’ll make a lot more progress than we have.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree that America is trying to cut emissions. There seems to be neither political nor corporate will to do so. Furthermore Americans have zero desire for reducing their standard of living to help the planet.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#160

Post by hooplah »

adamcstephens wrote: post #159
hooplah wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes you think the US gives a shit either? Because we cut our emissions by a lot while increasing energy output & manufacturing, and it's many people's #1 issue. I don't remember hearing about climate change in the CCP's 100 year anniversary speech, just bloody head bashing rhetoric. Other countries outsource to China as well, why haven't they been cutting their emissions, there's only 12 countries or so that…

I’m not hand waving China’s emissions away, and explicitly said they can and should do more. If and when they decide to deal with the problem, I expect they’ll make a lot more progress than we have. We’ll just have to agree to disagree that America is trying to cut emissions. There seems to be neither political nor corporate will to do so. Furthermore Americans have zero desire for reducing their standard of living t…

> If and when they decide to deal with the problem I expect they’ll make a lot more progress than we have.

Sure. I will update my stance if or when the CCP decides to do something, especially if they shoot past everyone in reduced emissions.

I won't hold my breath though, unless I'm in Shanghai's smog.

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