European Citizen's Initiative for UBI • Hacker News Board

Re: European Citizen's Initiative for UBI

#151

Post by rorykoehler » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

anoncake wrote: post #150

rorykoehler wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is a concern. I had this exact conversation on Reddit a couple days ago. What I wrote: >The flip side is it's much easier to make up the difference due to the increased economic opportunity in . If you can't it's a good incentive to move somewhere cheaper in turn reducing the pressure on housing in . Say I'd like to live in Monaco or Luxembourg. No one owes me that privilege. I can't just demand to…

If you're from Monaco or Luxembourg, you absolutely have the right to live there. You can't force people to emigrate because they're poor, that's ridiculous. And moving from a high COL to a low COL area in the EU still amounts to emigration.

In contrast people are being forced to move now without UBI. Take Portugal for example. Lots of the younger generation can't afford to stay in Lisbon or Porto due to rising costs and low pay.

Re: European Citizen's Initiative for UBI

#152

Post by dang » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 7:39 PM UTC

Shadonototro wrote: post #141

eplanit wrote: post #40

That logo of money changing hands makes a bad impression IMHO. It made me laugh, but I doubt that's their goal. It seems like self-parody, though I'm sure it's not.

instantly flagged, i guess i hit a nerve :) and i can properly map the elusive people on there, nice ;)

Can you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN? We're trying for a different sort of internet here, to the extent possible. Also, we've had to ask you this more than once before.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: European Citizen's Initiative for UBI

#153

Post by Shadonototro » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #152

Shadonototro wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

instantly flagged, i guess i hit a nerve :) and i can properly map the elusive people on there, nice ;)

Can you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN? We're trying for a different sort of internet here, to the extent possible. Also, we've had to ask you this more than once before. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

i would believe you if the the parent comment were flagged too, but it's not

but yes you are right, i should avoid it

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27740269

Re: European Citizen's Initiative for UBI

#154

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:32 AM UTC

xondono wrote: post #149

hef19898 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI would replace a lot of existing social security programs, pensions and health care are jone of those candidates.

That’s the “idea”, but there’s no way this would be the end result. You’ll find the odd case of someone who instead of paying their health insurance decided to gamble their income or spent it on drugs. If UBI truly replaces public health, these people won’t have health services. There’s a snowballs chance in hell that you’ll be able to sell this politically in the EU.

Again, that's not what UBI will be. It wil be a social program, health care being public in all EU countries will be apart. Also worth noting, you cannot be not insured in Europe. Drugs have nothing to do with that neither, all German drug addicts have health insurance.

Re: European Citizen's Initiative for UBI

#155

Post by bassman9000 » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 10:27 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #89

xondono wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed that it’s too scarce on details. The obvious problem here is that UBI only makes sense if you take those other programs out (no public healthcare, no public pensions), but it will be unthinkable for most europeans to loose those. There’s no way to sell a change that requires people to take that amount of personal responsibility, especially when they’ve enjoyed life without them. I also hate that what was a goo…

UBI would replace a lot of existing social security programs, pensions and health care are jone of those candidates.

Read my comments, and the answers to yours: UBI is the a flat playment for everyone, but most existing social services have vastly different costs depending on many factors, including age.

The only way it would work was if UBI was calculated as the maximum payment needed by the most needy person. But then there would be no incentives to work for the vast majority of the population. No one producing is no one paying taxes, so no UBI.