Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

kleinbottle.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 628 posts

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#151

Post by renw0rp »

CliffStoll wrote: post #101
dflock wrote: post #6

That sucks. Nice write-up of how this scam works, I wasn't aware of the details previously. Also, if anyone is unaware, this is this Clifford Stoll: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Stoll - who wrote this brilliant (and true) book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo%27s_Egg_(book) - which is a really good read and perfect for HN.

Thanks, DFlock. As you realize, writing up what happens is a necessary part of fixing a problem. That’s why I wrote Cuckoo’s Egg. I’m gratified that my own community has responded; perhaps someone at Amazon will pick up on this.

I've read your book a couple of years ago. When I saw your name on hacker news I thought it sounded familiar!

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#153

Post by furyg3 »

CliffStoll wrote: post #116

Guess I'd better say a few things. First, I deeply appreciate that so many on Hacker News have come out for this. Enough to awaken me from a sound sleep on a Tuesday evening! I don't really care that much about selling Klein bottles over Amazon - it's mainly to reach parents over the holidays. But I do wish that Amazon would do something about this kind of thing. Finally, I"m very low on stocks of glass Klein bottles…

Hey Cliff, I just have to say thanks. I read the Cuckoo's Egg in the early 90s and while I was already interested in computers, the idea that there were "networks" of them out there... well... it blew my mind.

I immediately went to my school librarian and said I wanted to try to connect computers together, or try to dial-up to library information services, etc. We started learning together.

You were a huge inspiration, thanks.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#154

Post by CliffStoll »

Nicksil wrote: post #11

This seems completely insane to me. How is this possible? I like Cliff Stoll and have been looking forward to my first Klein bottle purchase for some years now, so I say this without any insinuation Cliff's not telling the whole story: There's got to be more to it than this, right? Can someone really go on Amazon, effectively take over someone's storefront, and completely ransack the place this easily? Because Cliff…

Hi Nick, And thank you for your kind note. I'm in the embarrassing position of asking you to wait a few months, as I'm very low in stock; I hope to have more glass Klein bottles by late summer. (Klein bottle hats & Mobius scarves, happily, I have plenty).

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#155

Post by [deleted] »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #64
bhrgunatha wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a further question. Since he has common law trademark, why wouldn't that still apply? Someone else is selling via Amazon in the US using his common law trademark.

Total speculation here, but probably because common law trademark would have to be proven in a court of law. That is, he would have to sue the Chinese company, present evidence like newspaper clippings or testimony from customers, win, get a judgement, and present that to Amazon. Until then, Amazon looks in the USPTO database.

[deleted]

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#156

Post by CliffStoll »

KirillPanov wrote: post #59
Nicksil wrote: post #11

This seems completely insane to me. How is this possible? I like Cliff Stoll and have been looking forward to my first Klein bottle purchase for some years now, so I say this without any insinuation Cliff's not telling the whole story: There's got to be more to it than this, right? Can someone really go on Amazon, effectively take over someone's storefront, and completely ransack the place this easily? Because Cliff…

I am confused too. Especially this part: On June 22nd, they used Amazon's Brand Registry to re-brand my listing on Amazon (replacing my brand, "Acme Klein Bottle" with "Amvoom") They could do this because Amazon's Brand Registry only respects issued trademarks. I don't get this at all. Attacker has a trademark on "Amvoom". The word "Amvoom" does not appear in Stoll's product name or description. It isn't even close t…

Kirill, you've put your finger on the central problem. Amazon should check that a product which is claimed by a Brand is actually covered by the "goods & services" listed under that trademark.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#157

Post by Animats »

gabereiser wrote: post #99

This, and other instances of this scam make me not want to buy anything off Amazon ever again. Where is Amazon in this? Why is this even a thing ? Is there no oversight at all? Amazon has now become the Alibaba of the west and it makes me sick to think the once beloved marketplace is now just scamville. I typically buy from sellers websites now and rarely buy off of Amazon but now I feel I need to completely remove A…

"Amazon has now become the Alibaba of the west"

Alibaba is much better than Amazon about seller verification. Look up, say, "PC power supply". On Amazon, you're lucky if you get the address of the seller and a product image.

Alibaba gives you multiple detailed pictures of the object, including its data plate. You get the full address of the seller, and whether it's the manufacturer or a reseller. There's usually a picture of the factory, info about their annual sales and number of employees, whether that's been verified by a third party, how fast they usually respond to inquries. Sometimes even what production equipment they use. What certifications they have and who does their certifications.

Many of those companies will accept an order for one unit.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#158

Post by Nicksil »

KirillPanov wrote: post #59
Nicksil wrote: post #11

This seems completely insane to me. How is this possible? I like Cliff Stoll and have been looking forward to my first Klein bottle purchase for some years now, so I say this without any insinuation Cliff's not telling the whole story: There's got to be more to it than this, right? Can someone really go on Amazon, effectively take over someone's storefront, and completely ransack the place this easily? Because Cliff…

I am confused too. Especially this part: On June 22nd, they used Amazon's Brand Registry to re-brand my listing on Amazon (replacing my brand, "Acme Klein Bottle" with "Amvoom") They could do this because Amazon's Brand Registry only respects issued trademarks. I don't get this at all. Attacker has a trademark on "Amvoom". The word "Amvoom" does not appear in Stoll's product name or description. It isn't even close t…

Exactly. That's why I was dumbfounded; it just seemed too ridiculous to be real. These companies really don't give a shit about people; they just continue to recite something about "customer obsession" and return to patting themselves on the back.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#159

Post by CliffStoll »

varenc wrote: post #17
mrcodedude wrote: post #4

https://smile.amazon.com/Acme-Klein-Bottle-Handmade-Glass/dp... I think this is the item.

Direct link to buy one from Cliff Stoll on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Acme-Klein-Bottle-Handmade-Glass/dp/B... (but you should actually buy from his website)

Thank you Mr. Varenc and Mr. Code, Yes, that's what's left of what used to be my Amazon Klein bottle listing. Note that what used to be Klein Bottle by Cliff Stoll is now Amvoom Klein Bottle. Although I created the listing 4 or 5 years ago, I'm now unable to edit or change the listing. I've bumped up my price sufficiently high, in hopes that nobody will buy from there.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#160

Post by CliffStoll »

Apocryphon wrote: post #83

Good fodder for him to write a sequel.

Any suggestions on where I should post a slightly more academic version of this analysis? Somehow, posting here on Hacker News seems like I'm talking with friends at a cafe; surely there's a better place for this to be addressed. I'm not even sure if this kind of thing falls under the aegis of "computer security"
Post reply on HN