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HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

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Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#151

Post by ginko »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #122
someperson wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A big part of the Party's legitimacy is that they succeeded where the Nationalists failed: They kicked out foreigner powers from China and reasserted Chinese sovereignty. Getting HK back is a major achievement for them with the full support of the Chinese public (even for people sympathetic with HK's struggle to maintain its democratic rights). I think this is something overlooked in the West, if not purposely ignore…

As far as I remember it was mainly the Chinese side that framed the HK democracy movement as secessionist.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#153

Post by Dah00n »

bosswipe wrote: post #119
vmception wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a Cambridge University Press / APSA study about the United States that shows populist swelling or the popular vote rarely results in any legislative change that matches the sentiment, and legislative changes come from well funded special interests that were already there. It is either purely coincidence when those changes match what the protesters want because special interests became interests, or were alre…

Yes, protests are the impotent desperate cry of the unheard. I love of the free because, no matter how much corruption, we will not lose that voice of last resort. Millions of us are willing to fight to the death to preserve it.

If it doesn't make any difference, why is it important? It seems it is a security valve working directly against the average citizen that is "willing to fight to the death to preserve it". It is there to keep the status quo.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#154

Post by mytailorisrich »

ginko wrote: post #151
mytailorisrich wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of the Party's legitimacy is that they succeeded where the Nationalists failed: They kicked out foreigner powers from China and reasserted Chinese sovereignty. Getting HK back is a major achievement for them with the full support of the Chinese public (even for people sympathetic with HK's struggle to maintain its democratic rights). I think this is something overlooked in the West, if not purposely ignore…

As far as I remember it was mainly the Chinese side that framed the HK democracy movement as secessionist.

I'm saying this in general, not specifically about the democracy movement but about depiction in the media. In the media HK is almost always presented as "HK v China" like it's somehow a different country. This is an obvious rhetorical trick, IMHO.

Now, regarding those protests, when demonstrators are filmed waving the HK colonial flag, the Union Jack, or the Star spangled banner they are handing a big stick to the central government to label them secessionists and puppets of foreign influence.

Edit: Right now on the BBC there is an article titled "HK's year under China's controversial law", which makes it sound like HK is being occupied by a foreign country...

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#155

Post by doesthismean »

GordonS wrote: post #144
doesthismean wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... peaceful protesting... Is setting fires on public transport, damaging roads and buildings, beating up (in some cases almost killing) innocent bystanders "peaceful protesting"? What westerners do not understand is that the 2019 riots in HK are motivated by hatred toward Chinese mainlanders who have risen in wealth in recent decades and to whom HK residents have historically felt superior. A parallel in the West…

I love HK, and I have friends in HK. What I've heard is very different - most protesting has been peaceful, sometimes turning violent after actions by the police or a few anarchist types on the fringes (and let's be honest, there's a good chance these are often working under instruction of the secure apparatuses). They also vehemently deny any kind of racism against mainlanders - people are against the new security l…

> They also vehemently deny any kind of racism against mainlanders

Do racists happily admit that they are racists though?

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#156

Post by bhawks »

lucian1900 wrote: post #132
bhawks wrote: post #125

Empty words and token sanctions are not going to stop the CCP's blatant takeover of HK and trashing of the '1 country 2 systems' agreement. Real action - offer US citizenship to Hong Kong era that want it. Then go recognize the Republic of Taiwan as an independent country. Unfortunately the CCP is probably right in their assumption that our politicians are to greedy and spineless to make anything beyond a soundbite g…

The local government in Taiwan still claims all of China as its territory, why would they want to be an independent country with only one island?

First off disputed borders are a very common occurrence in geo politics. It rarely prevents country C from recognizing both country A and country B. Outside of the Taiwan case I can't think of a situation where a border claim dispute effectively locked a country out of nearly all international forums (or crippled it to the point of having no significant voice). The situation is very unique to say the least, but let's be frank it is dysfunctional.

Secondly reunification by any method along any short or long time frame has only a small amount of public support in Taiwan. (Recent polling: https://jamestown.org/program/taiwanese-public-opinion-on-ch...). It has been on a downward trend for quite awhile. Anyone suggesting Taiwan is going to make a forceful play to establish Taiwanese control over mainland china is beyond delusional. Very sadly the likelihood of the inverse happening grows higher day by day (both in CCP leaders talking points and military displays).

Tldr I chose the words Republic of Taiwan very deliberately. :).

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#157

Post by GordonS »

doesthismean wrote: post #155
GordonS wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love HK, and I have friends in HK. What I've heard is very different - most protesting has been peaceful, sometimes turning violent after actions by the police or a few anarchist types on the fringes (and let's be honest, there's a good chance these are often working under instruction of the secure apparatuses). They also vehemently deny any kind of racism against mainlanders - people are against the new security l…

> They also vehemently deny any kind of racism against mainlanders Do racists happily admit that they are racists though?

By this logic, they are vile racists no matter what?!

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#158

Post by Dah00n »

GordonS wrote: post #136
wyager wrote: post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

> fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. Haha, as a westerner, I believe peaceful protest is invariably futile. Take the 2003 protests against the Iraq war for example - 3 million protested in Rome, 1.5 million in Madrid, 1 million in London, and millions more across the west. What happened? They went to war based on…

Protests are a legal part of the system as a blow-off valve to let average citizens get rid of their rage. It's there to keep the status quo. It makes no difference without force behind it. As long as the opposing view doesn't feel endangered it is working for them and against the average citizen. As soon as it makes a difference it is no longer protests but a rebellion, which most who will protest doesn't have the stomach for.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#159

Post by logotype »

dirtyid wrote: post #115
_carbyau_ wrote: post #8

In this article, I was surprised to read that anyone thought "freedom of the press" still existed in HK at all. Once they took the boss of Apple Daily it was pretty clear. HK is governed by one system.

Jimmy Lai + affiliates getting stomped for colluding with foreign forces is long overdue. Zero reason for HK publisher to meet with Pompeo and other US officials. Ditto with other politicians charged with collusion, i.e. those who asked US for sanctions to counter "one country" interests. One thing PRC intelligence is good at is catching spies and crushing foreign influence. The PRC "One System" which always had full…

Warning, account associated with CCP.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#160

Post by Dah00n »

baybal2 wrote: post #77
Seirdy wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How and why do authoritarian regimes topple? Multiple overlapping reasons, some of which include: - the military overthrows the rest of the executive/legislative powers - Gross incompetence resulting in the government's self-destruction - Financial collapse - Secession - Very strong external pressures (invasion, economic destruction, etc). - Multiple violent insurrections straining executive resources and undermini…

Please take a look on Kim Jong Fat III, and his kingdom. - multiple military mutinies, now suppressed, check - the entirety of NK civil administration been sent to firing squad, or gulags multiple times, and rebuilt anew every time it fails - financial collapse — you will never financially collapse if you can steal - secession, you cannot secede in NK, even individually. They have machinegunners at the border, shooti…

>do not simply topple, they have to be toppled.

Yes, by those next in line. They fall when those one step down from power takes it. That they might use the average citizen to gain power and that it might make it better for them than before is a side effect. It's the same in democratic elections. The average citizen never get the power, it is transferred to someone who might or might not be more aligned with their wishes.

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