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Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

nature.com

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Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#151

Post by Unklejoe »

chaostheory wrote: post #57
cdolan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source/Sauce?

I don't know why the original comment is being downvoted. It is not a conspiracy theory to assume that we need booster shots. Is it not like our situation with the flu? https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-... https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/22/covid-booster-shots-coronavi... The news of this new study just came out today. Give the guy a break.

> Is it not like our situation with the flu?

Nope, and for the same reason COVID deniers who claimed "it's just like the flu" in the beginning were wrong.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#152

Post by cogman10 »

braincat31415 wrote: post #132
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> zero scientific evidence to the contrary, and plenty of evidence to support it We have evidence that vaccination continue to provide broad-spectrum immunity while those naturally immune are e.g. still vulnerable to the Delta variant [1]. [1] https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera...

The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that about half of adults infected in an outbreak of the delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine Source CNBC.

Can I see a link? I'm not finding the same report. Instead I'm finding these [1] which point to the vaccine being highly effective at keeping you out of the hospital.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#153

Post by reedjosh »

saiya-jin wrote: post #142
reedjosh wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because authoritarianism is antithetical to our founding nature. A centralized database that is used to control individuals is akin to China's social credit system. I've actually started seeing people argue for China style systems, and I find it both frightening and sickening. When I start to push back at all, I usually get arguments like `Leave the US if you don't like it.`, and sure I'll just pick up and leave the…

I think this kind of attitude is exactly what OP had in mind. There are tons of central databases you are already registered in, all available on demand. They detail your life in more detail than you know about yourself at this point (certainly when all data are combined). To be not aware of this on place like HackerNews is... not very believable, we discuss this all the time, every day. "last bastion of freedom" - t…

I like your comment, and I agree the Swiss are probably free-er at this point--but we were something of a free nation at one time, and we still (Orwellian?) bill ourselves as such.

> There are tons of central databases you are already registered in, all available on demand.

Most of these are not ran by the government though. Thus their use is not mandated.

> your freedom ends where other's begins

In libertarian circles this is generally spoken about as the `non-aggression principle`.

I in no way think that a proof of vaccination system put together by private providers, coupled with businesses' choice to check vaccination status is wrong. I do think the responsible thing to do is somewhere along the lines of self isolating to either being vaccinated or having an antibody test.

My objection is a government orchestrated vaccination database with mandated use in private businesses.

edit: I don't know why you're being downvoted, but I did upvote you for the thoughtful commentary. : )

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#154

Post by wait_a_minute »

CameronNemo wrote: post #135
wait_a_minute wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. Not in the United States lol, unless you work at some hospitals. Get vaccinated and wear a mask to avoid the Delta strain and stay at home more. You don't need to know someone else's status when you've got your own protection. Whenever someone tries to justify something with "but the collective" alarm bells should really start going off. You know that in Florida and other states where there are no mandat…

Masks do not provide as much protection for the users as for other people. I have a right to use public spaces.

We all have a right to use public space. If the users are not interested in the vaccination or don't already have antibodies, that is on them. They will have reaped what they sowed. It's not your business to police that though.

And you ignored what I said about Florida and the other states where people have been going maskless for a long time without the numbers changing the trend.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#155

Post by incrudible »

braincat31415 wrote: post #132
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> zero scientific evidence to the contrary, and plenty of evidence to support it We have evidence that vaccination continue to provide broad-spectrum immunity while those naturally immune are e.g. still vulnerable to the Delta variant [1]. [1] https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera...

The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that about half of adults infected in an outbreak of the delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine Source CNBC.

Moreover, half of the deaths from the delta variant in the UK occured in fully vaccinated individuals:

https://www.businessinsider.com/vaccinated-among-delta-death...

I would see two main reasons for this:

- vaccinations are far from "94% effective" in the age groups who need it the most (elderly with weakened immune systems)

- deaths are over-counted (death from any cause within 28 days is counted as COVID death)

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#156

Post by mrj »

sjwalter wrote: post #78
munk-a wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't - it's providing unified and clear guidance on vaccination. I'm up in Canada where vaccine hesitancy has been almost unheard of[1] and those who refuse to get vaccinated, excepting those that can't for medical reasons, are ostracized for their overtly selfish actions. The US, though, has a real problem with disinformation being accepted more readily than fact. I am fine with the theory of having a nuanced…

As a Canadian who emigrated to the US, the attitude you so proudly display--ostracizing people who aren't convinced of a novel vaccine with zero long-term safety information--makes me so happy I live here.

It's not novel, this technology has been trialed and used for a decade, 3 years in vaccines.

We do already have long-term data. You would see side effects for a vaccine within six months, and we have been administering it for much longer than that.

The vaccines are safe.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7956899/

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#157

Post by braincat31415 »

braincat31415 wrote: post #132
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> zero scientific evidence to the contrary, and plenty of evidence to support it We have evidence that vaccination continue to provide broad-spectrum immunity while those naturally immune are e.g. still vulnerable to the Delta variant [1]. [1] https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera...

The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that about half of adults infected in an outbreak of the delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine Source CNBC.

Links: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/delta-who-urges-fully-vaccin... https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-h...

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#158

Post by wait_a_minute »

baq wrote: post #140
wait_a_minute wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone opposes that common sense, I’d have to wonder what their agenda is tbh.

back in the day it was common sense surgeons washing hands is pointless.

And? That doesn't change that there are still things which are common sense and rooted in basic logic accessible to anyone. That Nature journal article is one of those things.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#159

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #114
motohagiography wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What outcome does a domestic vaccine passport achieve? I work in health information privacy, where regulations were written to prevent that specific situation. There's no denying it's a proxy for political positions, so the case for it needs to be clear, especially in a world where people say in public that it is "irresponsible," to entertain critical opinions. What problem does a domestic vaccine passport solve?

> What problem does a domestic vaccine passport solve? The same problem the Yellow Card [1] solves. Right now, I have a New York State electronic passport and a CDC paper proof of vaccination. The former works in New York City. The latter works across the U.S., at least now. (At least, it worked in San Francisco and Atlanta.) If I travel abroad, I may need to get the latter re-certified since it's trivial to forge an…

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#160

Post by metters »

boc wrote: post #134
metters wrote: post #89

The headline is wrong. The article is about mRNA vaccines in general. Moreover, Pfizer is partner of BioNTech, which developed the vaccine. I don’t understand why OP omits that and solely credits Pfizer.

"The process is the vaccine" aka manufacturing the vaccine is the hardest part. Saying that Pfizer is just a partner of the "real" vaccine developer downplays the importance of manufacturing to a significant degree. It's just as much Pfizer's vaccine as it is BioNTech's.

But then why leaving them out? I accept your point but BioNTech is as much credible for this as Pfizer
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