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Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

medrxiv.org

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Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#151

Post by lagadu »

jdhendrickson wrote: post #141
mikem170 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent never mentioned a conspiracy. They did mention running into a lot of glibly dismissive dead ends researching their concerns. I don't think their decision is unreasonable. I'm personally not looking at the same factors, and think of covid vaccination differently. I'm guessing you do, also. I personally don't see a problem with that. Who am I to tell force someone else to my way of thinking?

That philosophy is fine when the resulting issues only harm the person taking that attitude, herd immunity, viral mutation due to more hosts, and a plethora of other reasons don't allow us to take the live and let live attitude about vaccinations this time around.

I'll be getting downvoted but it doesn't matter: it's you. You and people like you are the reason I'm not getting vaccinated. I'm from a time when having and exercising autonomy over what one does or does not with their own body was something celebrated, however now society has normalized insulting and bullying people for making their own choices.

I will not tolerate a society that does this, fortunately I'm in a position to hurt it by simply not getting vaccinated. I have no doubts that it's perfectly safe and I'd be fine, with the bonus of being more protected.

So yes. You are the reason I'm doing my part to ensure we'll never achieve herd immunity. Good job.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#152

Post by [deleted] »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #124
loteck wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a part of a chain of transmission that kills someone, when you could have instead been the person who broke the chain and saved a life?

Are you advocating for full population vaccination of all contagious diseases with mortality rates (that have vaccines) or is there something special about COVID?

[deleted]

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#153

Post by inglor_cz »

nicoburns wrote: post #56
r3trohack3r wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure which child to respond to, so responding here. I’m pretty well aligned with this and I’m not sure why it’s getting the downvotes. COVID has never been communicated to me as something serious for my age group. Maybe I’m misinformed, but I’ve never feared getting COVID. I was _terrified_ of needing hospital care _during a hockey stick_. COVID was communicated to me as a hospital killer. I was terrified I’d…

Long covid. I'm 28, fit and healthy, and I had covid that wasn't bad enough to require hospital treatment, but left with me with fatigue, shortness of breath and heart arrythmias that are only just improving 12 months later and are still not back to full fitness.

I am 42, fairly fit and healthy too, and I still suffer from minor heart arrhythmia and an occasional fatigue 6 months after contracting a mild case of covid.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#154

Post by 411111111111111 »

colordrops wrote: post #97
drclau wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably the first time I read about these side effects. Are you certain it's your perception that has changed (ie. neurological changes), as opposed to the actual smell? I would not be surprised at all if Covid has an impact on the gut flora.

According to a Harvard article I read, it's caused by damage to the sensors in the nose, rather than brain damage. I have the problem myself and it's definitely not changes to the smells themselves.

The effect isn't unique to covid-19 either. I heard from several people when that 2017 flu went around that they had the same issue. One of them was complaining for over a year until smell/taste finally got better/normal again.

(Not trying to downplay covid-19. Just pointing out that it's not an unknown side effect from this type of disease)

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#155

Post by faeriechangling »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #4

I wish I could get people that are avoiding the COVID vaccine “because we don’t know what the long term effects are” to realize that we have real data showing that there are long term effects from getting full blown COVID. You don’t want a tiny piece of mRNA but you want the whole organism reproducing in your body? The whole genome and all the proteins made?

Yeah this one has perticularly irked me we have data on the vaccines dating back almost as far as data on COVID. There is less overall cases and less overall time so there are more unknowns but there isn't also the same phenomenon we see of "COVID long haulers" amongst vaccine recipients. So far we have MORE evidence of spooky but speculative long term effects for COVID itself.

The only argument that has made sense to me is the Freerider argument, or "both COVID and the vaccine have unknown effects so I will try to avoid both" because COVID cases are currently so low particularly when bolstered with "I'm open to taking the vaccine especially if cases go up but want to delay for more data for now". I'm sceptical it's going to be possible for anybody but a marginal minority to be a Freerider who doesn't vaccinate/distance/wear PPE long term because R0=5.7 in Wuhan during the initial outbreak so it seems like it takes mass scale efforts to reduce transmission no matter how one goes about it.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#156

Post by faeriechangling »

throwkeep wrote: post #108
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #4

I wish I could get people that are avoiding the COVID vaccine “because we don’t know what the long term effects are” to realize that we have real data showing that there are long term effects from getting full blown COVID. You don’t want a tiny piece of mRNA but you want the whole organism reproducing in your body? The whole genome and all the proteins made?

There are valid concerns and a difficult risk benefit analysis for some cohorts, I think. What are your thoughts on this? Put yourself in her shoes: "I held off on a COVID vaccine because I wanted to wait for data with positive signals for both pregnancy in the short term and long-run fertility. I’m trying to get pregnant, and those are the two things I care about most. Vaccine data is so politicized that it’s actual…

I haven't found it exceedingly hard to find data supportive or critical of vaccination despite the fact that the pro-vaxxers feel morally entitled and even obligated to censor the planet. Where there isn't censorship there is forced editorialization or often both. Such things aren't unusual though and I predicted it before it happened based on the known correlation between disease outbreaks and authoritarianism. Mind that you have to know how to FIND uncensored communities of anti-vax cranks who will gladly shove the most plausible theories they can devise in your face.

The fact that the lab leak hypothesis stopped being a heterodoxy despite long being censored by big social media networks by non-medical professionals pretending that by citing politifact they were proxy medical professionals was shrugged off and censorship didn't even pause. Negative feedback has no effect on the strategy even when it reveals a stunning lack of expertise on the part of the censors. We even saw papers like WaPo just quietly retroactively correcting headlines and continuing to dish out Pinocchio ratings.

I don't find the data to convince me of the anti-vax argument at all, save for potential arguments that there might be an angle to freeride at least short term off other people mitigating covid through vaccination and non-vaccination measures.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#157

Post by mkhpalm »

lima wrote: post #24
plank_time wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the percentage of people who suffered any long term brain effects? And did they do the same study against people who got the flu and other diseases?

> And did they do the same study against people who got the flu and other diseases? Does this matter?

> Does this matter?

If we believe in science, probably.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#158

Post by faeriechangling »

peter422 wrote: post #122
throwkeep wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are valid concerns and a difficult risk benefit analysis for some cohorts, I think. What are your thoughts on this? Put yourself in her shoes: "I held off on a COVID vaccine because I wanted to wait for data with positive signals for both pregnancy in the short term and long-run fertility. I’m trying to get pregnant, and those are the two things I care about most. Vaccine data is so politicized that it’s actual…

The vaccines did not skip any safety tests, they just compressed the schedule because millions of people were dying of a preventable disease. At this point hundreds of millions of people have taken the various vaccines. There clearly are no major short or medium term effects (other than the reported, rare side effects). Also you can literally read all the documents provided to the FDA concerning the efficacy and safe…

It's semantics at the end of the day. Less tests were done overall in accordance with a prepared in advance plan to rapidly deploy a vaccine in the case of a global pandemic. More risk was taken for more reward. It's questionable if more risk was even taken at all given the unknowns of COVID itself.

At this point the COVID vaccines are among the most "tested" medicines in history just on merit of their huge scale deployment, with them only truly lacking much insight into what happens after 2 years, which is something we hardly know about COVID itself.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#159

Post by curmudgeon22 »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #4

I wish I could get people that are avoiding the COVID vaccine “because we don’t know what the long term effects are” to realize that we have real data showing that there are long term effects from getting full blown COVID. You don’t want a tiny piece of mRNA but you want the whole organism reproducing in your body? The whole genome and all the proteins made?

I think it's reasonable to do a personal assessment of the risk. Yes, COVID can have very negative short and long term effects. BUT, what are an individuals chance of getting COVID? Quite a bit less than 100%. That's not the same math as the vaccine.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#160

Post by evgen »

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #81
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #4

I wish I could get people that are avoiding the COVID vaccine “because we don’t know what the long term effects are” to realize that we have real data showing that there are long term effects from getting full blown COVID. You don’t want a tiny piece of mRNA but you want the whole organism reproducing in your body? The whole genome and all the proteins made?

We also have data showing that there are negative long-term effects from getting the full-blown COVID vaccine. [0] The range of negative outcomes for just about any medical procedure range from none to death, so this should not be surprising. One really cannot, and should not, use this kind of reasoning for what should be a private, personal matter. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/CovidVaccinated/ (Note the "I am not an…

"I am not anti-vax" is always the first lie we hear from every anti-vax idiot. Now that the general anti-vax position has been so thoroughly debunked everyone knows to avoid someone who is obviously displaying this particular mental illness, so they have learned to be much more circumspect about their claims and how to position their anti-vax arguments. It will usually start with a bit of sea lioning and concern trolling before they move into arguments that tend to end with 'just saying...'
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