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Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

economist.com

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Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#151

Post by dTal »

nickelpro wrote: post #134
slim wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sure it's a free market of ideas ? What do you make of intellectual property ? Content zoning ? Media consolidation ? On social media : what do you make of algorithmically selected content ? Thought bubbles ?

People who engage with social media do so freely. If the content wasn't what they wanted or sought out, it wouldn't be popular and successful. Would you rather have it policed? A grand council that determines which algorithms you may enjoy and which are verboten?

>People who engage with social media do so freely. If the content wasn't what they wanted or sought out, it wouldn't be popular and successful.

That's quite an assumption, one that is frequently called into question on this very site. The very largest social media sites have growth strategies unavailable to smaller competitors - "the rich get richer". People who want to participate in any social media are forced to join the largest ones purely to follow the crowd. When I'm out and about in the real world and I see small handfuls of social media icons plastered on things, it doesn't feel like a "free marketplace of idea" - it feels like society intentionally facilitates and encourages the use of a select few services.

And yes, when they get large enough to be de-facto infrastructure - like Facebook did - absolutely there should be a council of acceptable algorithms. We can't let for-profit companies decide the terms of discourse of society at large.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#152

Post by flohofwoe »

Popegaf wrote: post #144

The rest of the world should be aggressively promoting their culture, values and language, just like the US. Japan is doing a very good job of that with the proliferation of weebs, but others are not. Europe barely exports any culture or media - especially in their own languages. Most things EU are regionally locked and if they aren't, they are behind paywalls or accessible through American networks. Were I to try an…

Don't you have access to satellite TV? For instance ASTRA is full of international TV channels. And in the past, shortwave radio was the equivalent, you could receive radio stations from (nearly) all over the world.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#153

Post by nickelpro »

dTal wrote: post #151
nickelpro wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who engage with social media do so freely. If the content wasn't what they wanted or sought out, it wouldn't be popular and successful. Would you rather have it policed? A grand council that determines which algorithms you may enjoy and which are verboten?

>People who engage with social media do so freely. If the content wasn't what they wanted or sought out, it wouldn't be popular and successful. That's quite an assumption, one that is frequently called into question on this very site. The very largest social media sites have growth strategies unavailable to smaller competitors - "the rich get richer". People who want to participate in any social media are forced to j…

How is it an assumption? Are you saying that people are using Facebook under threat of violence? Or are you saying that peer pressure wouldn't exist if it weren't for TikTok and Twitter forcing us all to become followers?

These are natural human social structures being extended by technology. Celebrities existed long before they were posting their butts on Insta. And just like you could choose to not engage with celebrity culture before the internet, you can choose to not engage now. That's the definition of free association and the free market of ideas.

> absolutely there should be a council of acceptable algorithms

Ya we're on completely different wavelengths about how governance works then. That's insanity to me. If I don't like facebooks content I just log off facebook, I wouldn't never think it appropriate to dictate in law what speech can or cannot be produced.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#154

Post by systemvoltage »

nickelpro wrote: post #134
slim wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sure it's a free market of ideas ? What do you make of intellectual property ? Content zoning ? Media consolidation ? On social media : what do you make of algorithmically selected content ? Thought bubbles ?

People who engage with social media do so freely. If the content wasn't what they wanted or sought out, it wouldn't be popular and successful. Would you rather have it policed? A grand council that determines which algorithms you may enjoy and which are verboten?

Uhh… try speaking against progressivism as a professor. You’ll get cancelled on Twitter followed by a letter from the Dean you’re fired. This is the fear and reality of all this freedom of expression we have. All free speech unless ofcourse you disagree.

I’m only slightly exaggerating.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#155

Post by nickelpro »

systemvoltage wrote: post #154
nickelpro wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who engage with social media do so freely. If the content wasn't what they wanted or sought out, it wouldn't be popular and successful. Would you rather have it policed? A grand council that determines which algorithms you may enjoy and which are verboten?

Uhh… try speaking against progressivism as a professor. You’ll get cancelled on Twitter followed by a letter from the Dean you’re fired. This is the fear and reality of all this freedom of expression we have. All free speech unless ofcourse you disagree. I’m only slightly exaggerating.

That's always been true? If you say something your boss hates, your boss has always been free to fire you. If you're a cashier and all the customers hate you, you're also getting fired.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#157

Post by systemvoltage »

nickelpro wrote: post #150
dmitriid wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you rather have it policed It is being policed? What do think algorithmic feeds are?

They're content referrers that people are free to engage or disengage with at their leisure. If you don't like Twitter's content you can go use Youtube, or TikTok, or Facebook, or HN. What I wouldn't want is some government agency telling me I'm not allowed to use Twitter for my own good. Or that the content I enjoy on [insert social media network] must change because HN finds it objectionable.

I think what you’re saying is true - We have the choice to pick another platform. But, I fear they’ll shut it down just like they did with Parlor.

Besides the choice of what platform to choose, people’s lives destroyed by Twitter mob whether they have a Twitter account or not. This is just not right. Activism by cancelling people. If you’ve got issue with someone, go through the proper channels and not publicly. There are cases when that’s needed and that’s why we have whistleblower laws. But, destroying someone’s career because they don’t share progressive views!?

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#158

Post by nickelpro »

systemvoltage wrote: post #157
nickelpro wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're content referrers that people are free to engage or disengage with at their leisure. If you don't like Twitter's content you can go use Youtube, or TikTok, or Facebook, or HN. What I wouldn't want is some government agency telling me I'm not allowed to use Twitter for my own good. Or that the content I enjoy on [insert social media network] must change because HN finds it objectionable.

I think what you’re saying is true - We have the choice to pick another platform. But, I fear they’ll shut it down just like they did with Parlor. Besides the choice of what platform to choose, people’s lives destroyed by Twitter mob whether they have a Twitter account or not. This is just not right. Activism by cancelling people. If you’ve got issue with someone, go through the proper channels and not publicly. Ther…

Ya man, that's social structures and public life. That's humanity. Twitter's got nothing to do with it, it's just the latest platform. Before Jack Dorsey and Twitter it was Cronkite on CBS, before Cronkite it was Pulitzer, Hearst, and their newpapers, and before them it was the Church.

At least now you've got your choice of platforms, just because some movements on some of the popular ones don't align with your personal views doesn't make the platform the problem.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#159

Post by sert121 »

i5heu wrote: post #42

Somewhat off topic but: Is there an frontend for hacker news,twitter or reddit that filters out all the US political and culture stuff? I really can't see more of this failed civilization that has the power to vaporize the earth in hours. I don't want to be reminded every single day.

Hews has filters which allow you to do that. [Google Play Store]

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#160

Post by systemvoltage »

nickelpro wrote: post #155
systemvoltage wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh… try speaking against progressivism as a professor. You’ll get cancelled on Twitter followed by a letter from the Dean you’re fired. This is the fear and reality of all this freedom of expression we have. All free speech unless ofcourse you disagree. I’m only slightly exaggerating.

That's always been true? If you say something your boss hates, your boss has always been free to fire you. If you're a cashier and all the customers hate you, you're also getting fired.

I don’t think this is a matter of liking someone. Replace political views with religion and we provide protections against discrimination of someone based on their religion.

Let me spell out the problem more clearly, it’s not as simple as your boss not liking you.

1) Coworker gets to find out someone doesn’t share their political beliefs.

2) They try to get moral superiority over the person … because disagreeing with their wokeness is immoral and it’s escalated from a minor disagreement to full blown moral superiority campaign.

3) Publicly denounce them. Unleash the Twitter mob.

4) Eventually it gets to the top management chain and they’re gonna fire this person who just a few years ago would have just been involved in a minor disagreement about politics in the coffee room.

If hope you can agree this is a problem, IMO has profound implications for the society.

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