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Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#151

Post by tharne »

MikeUt wrote: post #149
tharne wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should 18 years olds in the EU/US receive a vaccine before 75 year olds in other countries? Because a nation state has a duty to protect the safety of its own citizens first and foremost. If a government continuously puts the needs of other countries over the needs of its own citizens, who is going to support a system like that long-term? Perhaps a handful of upper-middle-class idealists, but not most people. R…

> Because a nation state has a duty to protect the safety of its own citizens first and foremost. I strongly agree, but that does not mean it has to be completely amoral in its interactions with other nations. Its own citizens may in fact be in favor of taking on some risk to help people beyond their borders. There is also a pragmatic side to this. A nation that acts too selfishly may soon find itself without allies.

Perhaps I didn't put enough nuance in my response, you're absolutely right. A nation state should put it's citizens first, but that should not preclude helping others.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#152

Post by mam3 »

CountDrewku wrote: post #116
josefresco wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop with this false narrative. American conservatives have giant and pervasive media organizations that cover Biden negatively 24/7. You're selectively choosing which "media" to criticize.

Fox news is the only "giant" media corporation promoting the conservative side and there are several individuals there that praise Biden. Everything else is left to far left, including our education system and the largest corporations in this country. So, take your own advice and stop promoting this false narrative that there's negative Biden coverage anywhere near the amount that Trump had. It's absolutely obvious t…

"left" ><

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#153

Post by snovv_crash »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #144
snovv_crash wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, nothing particularly exotic in the raw materials. It's mostly a time issue, complex equipment can't be replicated overnight.

So, given a decade or two, "Manufacturing mRNA vaccines _will likely be_ surprisingly straightforward and widespread" ? And that will be a big deal.

Hopefully, yes. With the advances in sequencing I see a lot of potential for things like small clinics providing personalized cancer vaccines, for example.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#154

Post by titoCA321 »

newsclues wrote: post #42
titoCA321 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't really matter, waiver or not. It's not like most industries or people can go about making this vaccines themselves. That's why I sometimes laugh about these folks that what to invalidate patents and have everything in the open. If Toyota posted schematics of their trucks online, do you think, you and I could build one without throwing resources, time, and money down a toilet? I would have better luck growing…

But what if there is a factory that can spit out lots of effective vaccines if given the recipe? Shouldn’t we use every resource available?

How much do you think this factory would charge for a vaccine? How much would it cost to standup a factory and if it was simple, why hasn't it been stood up already?

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#155

Post by _nkl1 »

apexalpha wrote: post #74
throwaway4good wrote: post #27

Something here smells deeply hypocritical. Currently vaccine companies such as the German Curevac (which is the vaccine company Trump famously tried to buy) is being held back by lack of core ingredients which are under American export bans. The US still upholds the export bans setup by the Trump administration. Biden can just revoke those. Yet he promotes the idea of waivering vaccine patents knowing well how hard t…

The US put an export ban on basically everything regarding vaccines, very early on. If you look at the amount of vaccines produced , the US and EU are fairly close to each other. The difference in Vaccine rollout comes from the fact that the EU exports vaccines to other countries while the US does not. As a European I would've been in favour of more export controls, but a total ban seems to go too far. Why should 18…

| If you look at the amount of vaccines produced, the US and EU are fairly close to each other.

EU has 2x the number of people.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#156

Post by _nkl1 »

lordloki wrote: post #135
machinebun wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me remind you, in case you forgot, that the Muslim ban EO happened 7 days into Trump's tenure (as well as shithole countries remark). That's about all the "chance" I was prepared to give. If that's how you lead foreign policy 7 days in, you don't deserve to be president. Full stop.

By "Muslim ban" you mean the travel restrictions of on citizens of the seven countries that Barak Obama also had restrictions on? It wasn't a muslim ban as nowhere in the language or practice did it ban muslims form entering the US. It restricted entry from people from seven countries that were listed by the Obama administration as having high rates of terrorist links. Hillary Clinton would likely have taken the same…

you realize under Trump, it was a blanket ban on all entry? that definitely wasn't the case under Obama.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#157

Post by vkou »

beckman466 wrote: post #52
vkou wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A country can take away whatever rights it wants to within its borders. That's the whole point of sovereignty. Patent laws are also not some natural, inalienable right. They are artificial constructs, provided as a courtesy, because the government feels that in the general case, they are more beneficial than harmful. In a particular case, they might be more harmful than beneficial.

> Patent laws [...] are artificial constructs What do you make of the move corporations are making away from the use of patents, towards the use of a hybrid ‘trade secret + patent‘ sandwich? Is there a scenario where it does not stifle innovation? I’m asking because I personally don’t see any. As you said these systems are artificial constructs, and at the worst this taking away as trade secrets is theft on an enormo…

> What do you make of the move corporations are making away from the use of patents, towards the use of a hybrid ‘trade secret + patent‘ sandwich? Is there a scenario where it does not stifle innovation?

I take that it's not happening to the extent claimed, and that those claims are largely self-serving propaganda used as justification for a legal land-grab.

Of course patent owners are going to argue that their patents should be valid for fifty thousand years, with the figleaf that it protects 'innovation'. What else would they say? That they'd like IP law tilted in their favour because it would make them more money?

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#158

Post by Kalium »

elliekelly wrote: post #108
ChemSpider wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how will waiving the IP help India to produce more? They already have all the licenses they need. It is a resource constraint, not a license/IP issue. If US/UK would finally allow vaccine exports like the EU does, _that_ would help India.

I’m not sure I understand why we aren’t? In my area it seems there are now plenty of vaccine doses to go around now. Anyone can walk in to one of the various vaccine clinics set up by the county and get it. No appointment, no ID, no insurance needed. When I went they were practically begging me to spread the word to friends and family.

At a time when the US has vaccinated under 50% of its population - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/health/covid-va... - do you think it's possible that perhaps your area might not be a fully representative sample?

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#159

Post by Auracle »

einpoklum wrote: post #92
baybal2 wrote: post #28

Indian pharmacies already disregard medication patents without anybody's permission. Vaccine manufacturing is just a way more involved process than anything what an average organic synthesis shop can handle. Dealing with antibodies, proteins, plasmids, or RNA requires real factories rather than garage labs. What one need is a complete process transfer : instructions on setting up every process, along with supplies ne…

> Indian pharmacies already disregard medication patents without anybody's permission. Good on them. I wish patents on medication were disregarded universally.

That would mean the only new developments would be due to government funded research.

I very much doubt we’d have these fancy new mRNA vaccines if that had been the case the last 20 years.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#160

Post by nevermindiguess »

akie wrote: post #71
teekert wrote: post #38

Moderna already waved their rights last year [0]. But the production of such vaccines is not easy and I believe that an organization grows and learns as a whole as a solution so complex is developed. Consequently it is not easy to replicate what they do. I think at best this puts a cap on the vaccine's price since "in theory" given enough financial incentive the vaccine can be reproduced. That's my theory, feel free…

All these interesting theoretical arguments while people are dying in droves... India was EXPORTING vaccine to the UK until not so very long ago. Maybe they don't have the capacity to produce the mRNA vaccines, but they most certainly have the capacity to produce viral vector vaccines such as AstraZeneca or Johnson & Johnson. I strongly believe it is our moral duty to buy-out or invalidate the IP of (at the very leas…

Imagine how much it would help to take your house away from you (without compensating you) to build that Highway. So many people would benefit from it. Perhaps even save lives by removing that dangerous crossing.
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