Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 287 posts

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#151

Post by iso1631 »

g_p wrote: post #67
leokennis wrote: post #4

This made me wonder...are (most) of the (undisputed) borders of the world actually stored somewhere? Or are some stones and posts still the "official" borders?

In the UK (technically Great Britain in this context) at least, there is an open dataset available from the national mapping authority (Ordnance Survey), which is called boundary lines. It contains all of the different boundary lines and borders of local authorities, parliamentary constituencies, regions, nations etc. This is all geo referenced against the OSGB coordinate system. I could see interesting challenges in…

In the UK, most freehold boundaries are available as a gml file. I'm looking at moving house and have one open right now in fact, here's a screenshot of it

https://imgur.com/cX2Seow.png

The white area being roads and non-registered land (mainly stuff that hasn't sold for decades and roads).

It's great, I can find a unique owner for any bit of field I have a question about, the size of the plot, etc.

The downside is that to get a copy of the actual entry in the register (to see who owns it and any covenants on the property there are), you have to pay £3. The entire process is digital and automated, IMO it should be free, but I suppose it's not a terrible price.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#152

Post by iggldiggl »

_the_inflator wrote: post #32

This is funny. Even funnier are the so-called line houses along the USA/Canada border: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_house

I also found this (online) exhibition documenting the whole USA/Canada border rather interesting: http://www.clui.org/section/united-divide-a-linear-portrait-...

Although from a European perspective, the post 9/11-state of that border also seems somewhat depressing…

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#153

Post by cinntaile »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #123
cinntaile wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people in Belgium speak both French and Flemish natively. It's one or the other, depending on which side of the language border you live on. In Flanders you have compulsory French classes while in Wallonia you don't have compulsory Flemish classes, but the compulsory classes don't get you anywhere near native proficiency. His last name doesn't sound very Flemish so his ancestors probably moved to Wallonia at…

I don't agree. My French is good enough for talking to French canadians ( native dutch). And even french have trouble understanding the Quebec language. Some that learned it never use it, so they forget it though. But they don't need it professionally.

Good enough is not even close to native though. He was wondering about native.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#155

Post by stereo »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #68
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPS. The border was likely digitized a decade or two ago. Someone noticed the stone didn't match the database.

I also feel like the "real" border is a line in a GIS database. Sure, the stone is supposed to be the border based on a 19th century treaty but we all know a 21st century government is not going to actually treat the stone's placement as the official border.

The real border is in the treaty. They describe geographical features that have sometimes moved ("the river x"), don't exist anymore ("the big oak tree") or take a lot of time to rediscover ("the field belonging to the widow soandso").

The stone is often only near the border - if the border is a path in a forest, you're not going to plonk it down in the middle of the path.

The gis database for administrative boundaries in Luxembourg[0] gets updated once a week, because the borders are based on cadastral measurements, which have been constantly updated since the 19th century. There's an error in every measurement, the idea is that over time it will average itself out.

[0] https://data.public.lu/fr/datasets/limites-administratives-d...

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#156

Post by saalweachter »

capableweb wrote: post #139
csunbird wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think that steps have that good of a precision (2.29%) over 100 steps for measuring distance. Can a human achieve that?

I was thinking more that he somehow discovered there might be an issue when measuring without good precision, and later came back to verify with a proper method.

Honestly, given the roundness of 7.5 ft, I would assume that 7.5 ft was the estimate and it was improperly converted to 2.29m as a precise measure.

With the unusualness of a European measuring something in feet.

It always irks me when I see signs saying "keep 6 ft (1.8288 m) apart", because 6 feet is just a round number of the approximate distance, and it's fine to just say "keep 6 ft (2 m) apart", for all that you'll get weirdos going "Well which is it??? 6 feet or 2 meters????"

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#157

Post by goodcanadian »

thaeli wrote: post #69
markstos wrote: post #61

My family farm got a new neighbor, who noticed that he technically owns a sliver of land with the first 100 feet of our gravel driveway, nevermind that we've been using it for the past 50 years since our property was purchased. I don't think anyone had noticed before, as this goes way back before GIS systems and satellite photos of property boundaries. For decades there's been a fence in the logical place between the…

The easiest thing for everyone involved is for their neighbor to grant an easement for the existing driveway. That way they can keep using it, but it's with explicit permission, so the neighbor doesn't have to worry about an adverse possession claim. If they're not amenable to that, the specifics digfer by state, but usually it's a "boundary line agreement" or similar where you'd basically be buying that small sliver…

To be fair (assuming it's a common law country), the GP probably already owns it through adverse possession if they have been using it openly for 50 years or more.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#158

Post by josephcsible »

lenkite wrote: post #40
danlugo92 wrote: post #2

I wish that one day all borders in the world were like this.

Yes, let a hundred such farmers do this and claim several square kilometres of territory. After all this farmer did and got away scot-free. Thus more people can do it. Frankly, if he doesn't get rapped on the knuckles it's a guarantee that other folks will try the same thing. Borders should be changed via treaty and diplomacy not by some un-educated moron deciding to take matters into his own hands. That only encoura…

You make it sound like his change to the border is going to stick. They told him to put the stone back where it was. If he refuses, he probably won't get away scot-free.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#159

Post by vimy »

smnrchrds wrote: post #45
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aaah I was going to post that :D! It stars one of my favorite comedic actors, Benoît Poelvoorde who is belgian. I'd encourage anyone with a taste for foreign films to check out "C'est arrivé près de chez vous" (Man Bites Dog in english) another great movie of his (features lots of violence and serious themes, not a family movie).

> Benoît Poelvoorde It looks like a very French first name and a very Dutch last name. Is that common in Belgium? Is there a significant overlap between the linguistic communities of Belgium?

When Flanders was poor a lot of Flemings moved to Wallonia, at the time it was the wealthy part of Belgium, to find work. They stayed and their kids grew up learning French and then their kids did as well, only their last names reminding them of where their ancestors came from.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#160

Post by koheripbal »

ilamont wrote: post #133
koheripbal wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They actually have fewer regulations and can usually cross the boarder very easily. It's one of the reasons that the area is extremely popular for smuggling.

Vince Thompson is one of about 2,000 Mohawks who lives there. He's also represents the Island as a chief on the Mohawk Council of Akwesasne. Just to take his daughter to a dentist appointment and go to some meetings, he says, he has to go back and forth through U.S. and Canadian customs, waiting in line and answering intrusive questions each time. "I’m going home. I gotta report in. Then I gotta race back home, pick…

While I'm sure that's true - it is still a very popular smuggling area exactly because the border patrol is very thin.
Post reply on HN