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Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#151

Post by chrisco255 »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #115
xwdv wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of malls do you have in your area to have no natural light? Pretty much every mall I’ve ever been to has tons of skylights and rooftop windows.

That's generally only in the common areas, not in the retail spaces that make up the vast majority of the actual floorplan and where any converted offices would actually be.

Yeah but that could be redesigned. They could punch some holes in the external facing sides of the former retail stores and add some glass. They could add more skylights on the roof and funnel them down too.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#152

Post by brudgers »

Spooky23 wrote: post #119
brudgers wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Major projects take a couple of decades to get out of the ground. What was the demand like for housing ten years ago? What is the demand for office space like today? What was the demand for retail twenty years ago? (Low, low, and low) [1]. I agree there are only so many stores a mall can support. At that point the economically sound strategy is to stop building. It's not to layer on incidental complexity that provide…

You really captured the real driver of a lot of real estate policy — the cash. Money people need things as simple as possible to package risk.

People think there are ways for the market to produce non-market outcomes. And don’t realize the scale at which market makers operate is qualitatively different from normal experience with real-estate. For big money quick profits are a problem.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#153

Post by emkoemko »

smoovb wrote: post #118
emkoemko wrote: post #107

is this a American thing? here in Canada malls are doing well and we keep building even more sometimes next to busy malls... its strange even they tell us Toys R Us is gone? yet they are not closed here basically all the malls have a Toys R Us.. whats up with the states?

Right. The state of malls in US is quite a contrast to Asia where new malls keep being built, especially here in Thailand. Malls across Asia represent the height of social interaction. Teenagers come and hang out. Social events like fashion shows, food fairs, car shows all are held in the clean comfort malls Public area. If you have a child that does any kind of singing dancing or musical instrument the recital is mo…

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/CrossIro...

we build malls in middle of nowhere and they get packed...

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#154

Post by joe_the_user »

abfan1127 wrote: post #25

Malls seem like the perfect mixed use type property. Stores on 1 floor, offices on 2nd floor, then 2-3 floors of housing. 1 of the big department stores could be a grocery store.

Once a mall can't be used as a mall, it is pretty much useless and generally gets torn down. They can't be used for housing since people don't want to live in windowless giant buildings surrounded by parking lots (and owners don't want to lower the rent until the desperate move it. Even the city doesn't want to house the homeless there). Malls might have a bit of office space already but the store-spaces aren't really suited for that either.

Edit: which is to say that traditional malls are just terrible because mixed use would be much better. City center buildings, even strip mall buildings, get a bunch of uses. But the scale of traditional suburbans just forces a single use on it.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#155

Post by rlayton2 »

Malls (shopping centres here in Australia) are terrible experiences. I don't like shopping, but the general process for shopping at a such a place is:

1) Drive some distance to get there 2) Park in a cramped car park, where the size of the parks is generally as small as legally allowed 3) Walk through the same car park, which bizarrely doesn't have walking ways for people to safely go through 4) Go to the shop and search for the item(s) you are after 5) Wait in line for some arbitrary amount of time because the store has hired as few staff as they could possibly managed. Note that I'm being asked to wait, despite clearly indicating a willingness to buy 6) Get accused of shoplifting on the way out, have to show a receipt and have a staff member ask to see all through my bag 7) Get back into the car, hope you don't hit any pedestrians as you are backing your car out 8) Exit through a maze of one-way streets, trying not to hit or get hit by other cars, shopping trolleys or pedestrians.

Obviously it's not all bad - you get to see the item you are buying and see related items, try on clothes to see they fit, and take the item home immediately. However, overall as an experience it is painful.

Online shopping has its negatives, but I can stay home, order what I want, pay immediately and move on with my day.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#156

Post by emkoemko »

wombatpm wrote: post #139
emkoemko wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where? here our malls have gotten massive updates, expansions and renovations over the years, not one is closed that would be a waste of a busy business...

Back in the 80's the last new mall was built in an 30 mile area that had 8 malls. Only 3 remain, the rest have been torn down. Ironically, that last mall built was the third one torn down.

we have like 10+ in 30miles and just built a new one, next to massive mall. So since the 80's no new mall was built in your area?

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#157

Post by unishark »

mertd wrote: post #84
abfan1127 wrote: post #25

Malls seem like the perfect mixed use type property. Stores on 1 floor, offices on 2nd floor, then 2-3 floors of housing. 1 of the big department stores could be a grocery store.

That's what a normal town looks like pretty much anywhere outside of North America. I don't know town planners love exclusive zoning so much here.

There are malls like this in the US. Such as places called "Galleria". But these seem like much more expensive projects that clearly can't be built everywhere, while the typical mall is really just an american version of an enclosed bazaar.

Also one US-specific issue is Christmas shopping, which probably drives a lot of the planing. Stores make the most money during a limited interval when they are packed to capacity and need to plan for that.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#159

Post by hntroll666 »

Not the pandemic, no. That's clearly incorrect attribution of causation, because it's not as if malls can't keep the stores staffed due to people dying. It's government policies that are killing businesses, not the virus. This is exactly the kind of take one would expect from the Washington Post, a propaganda outlet.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#160

Post by agogdog »

ilyanep wrote: post #122
beambot wrote: post #79

Malls could be the best co-working offices. Ample daytime parking, baller food courts, medical facilities, hair dressers, dentists, cafes, movie theaters, entertainment, etc all under one roof.

I love how in the US, instead of building all these services and offices near each other and walkable from people's homes, we insist on ideas that force people to drive dozens of miles to get a walkable and convenient experience.

After living in various parts of Europe for a few years and coming back, the US way of doing it seems mind-boggingly wasteful. Huge swaths of our country are long roads that lead to massive parking lots.

And of course we're obese, many people couldn't walk to accomplish errands if they wanted to.

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