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The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

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Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#151

Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. They were created to meet the specific law enforcement needs of each agency. Dept of Education agents investigate misuse of Dept of Education funds, for example. The Postal Inspec…

>They were created to meet the specific law enforcement needs of each agency. Dept of Education agents investigate misuse of Dept of Education funds, That's a really charitable way of saying "handle petty stuff that the FBI can't justify spending resources on". Every specialty police department exists for this reason and this reason only. Because the mission is often so petty they wouldn't get any resources if it was…

You can either have separate agencies or you can have a pile of specialized sub-agencies within some umbrella organization.....but working out how to align funding with who it's serving is going to be harder with the umbrella organization in many cases.

Specialization is a thing within policing as much as it is within the rest of life. It's not like the same person who knows how to investigate a murder scene is equally capable of investigating complicated financial crimes on Wall St.

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In terms of aligning incentives, there are various situations where there would otherwise there would be a mismatch of "who pays for this/who's responsibility this is" vs "who this is meant to serve".

On your examples:

Campus PD - College has equal/larger population than town. Town-college relations are often tense at best. Voters in town have no interest in spending their tax money on adequate policing for the college, college has no interest in donating a bunch of money to the PD to maybe get better services that they still have no say in. Students often heavily distrust the local PD and are unlikely to report crimes to them. It's still a problematic structure, but the premise that it would be better without is questionable.

Transit Cops - No individual town or city is going to patrol the system coherently otherwise, and areas which utilize the service less are unlikely to spend significant resources policing it. Services which cross state lines also have jurisdictional issues even with just using normal state-level police.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised they have inspectors. I'm surprised they think that social media surveillance is within their purview. I hope their inspectors continue to investigate mail theft, mail fraud, and other things related to the physical delivery of mail. But I don't want them shifting into digital snooping that is totally unrelated to mail.

> But I don't want them shifting into digital snooping that is totally unrelated to mail. I mean, the primary method for delivery of goods purchased on the Silk Road was through the USPS. And I imagine the tor sites that replaced the Silk Road have similar delivery needs. So if the USPS isn’t going to “digitally snoop” for the illegal delivery of handguns and heroin, who will?

Delivering guns as data is a thing now, I'm sure someone is working on heroin.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only some other kind of mail had become popular to replace the lost letter volume...

Can you imagine if USPS ran an email service and all of the legal protections afforded to our mailboxes and the contents of our postal communications applied just the same? The internet would be a completely different place. In a good way, I think.

Less awesome, but realistically USPS and their respective national organizations should run their DNS RBL lists. Protecting their nations against spam.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#154

Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. They were created to meet the specific law enforcement needs of each agency. Dept of Education agents investigate misuse of Dept of Education funds, for example. The Postal Inspec…

>They were created to meet the specific law enforcement needs of each agency. Dept of Education agents investigate misuse of Dept of Education funds, That's a really charitable way of saying "handle petty stuff that the FBI can't justify spending resources on". Every specialty police department exists for this reason and this reason only. Because the mission is often so petty they wouldn't get any resources if it was…

Makes a lot of sense to me that each department handles their own law enforcement, and can set the priorities they prefer.

One centralized Federal Police Department would be a single point of failure and bureaucratic nightmare.

Imagine if there were not State and local police departments. Just the FBI managing every shoplifting arrest in the country.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#155

Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. They were created to meet the specific law enforcement needs of each agency. Dept of Education agents investigate misuse of Dept of Education funds, for example. The Postal Inspec…

> Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. Maybe worth noting that USPIS is older than the FBI. It's the oldest federal law enforcement agency.

There's a sense in which is predates the US! Throughline from NPR had an episode about it, referring to a book called 'How the Post Office Created America' [1]

[0] https://www.npr.org/2020/09/02/908836752/the-postal-service

[1] https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/311582/how-the-post...

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#156

One thing I haven't really seen discussed (or maybe I'm just blind) is the fact that the USPS isn't a government organization quite like the others. It's supposed to be a more-private entity that competes in a market. Feels weird to give them law enforcement powers while still putting them up against private industry as competition, couldn't they just arrest all the UPS workers or something (gross oversimplification…

USPS is given an explicit monopoly on letter deliveries; they do not compete in their market.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#157
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. Maybe worth noting that USPIS is older than the FBI. It's the oldest federal law enforcement agency.

That's a fantastic trivia fact, I guess threats to the postal service are a very old problem so it makes sense.

It's hard to understate just how important the postal service was to the country: beyond driving so much commerce (and hence making mail deliveries a valuable target) it was used for all kinds of official documents and financial documents (money orders were introduced to reduce the risk further). Travel being expensive and hard, no alternatives like phone or email, etc. means that you send letters a LOT and things like postmarks or registered mail signatures have a substantial legal weight. Making a highly trusted service with special status to deter thieves available to everyone at a modest fee was a really smart move.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only some other kind of mail had become popular to replace the lost letter volume...

Can you imagine if USPS ran an email service and all of the legal protections afforded to our mailboxes and the contents of our postal communications applied just the same? The internet would be a completely different place. In a good way, I think.

If the USPS ran email, they would legalize spam and charge by the kilobyte.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#160

One thing I haven't really seen discussed (or maybe I'm just blind) is the fact that the USPS isn't a government organization quite like the others. It's supposed to be a more-private entity that competes in a market. Feels weird to give them law enforcement powers while still putting them up against private industry as competition, couldn't they just arrest all the UPS workers or something (gross oversimplification…

Private railroads also have police with law enforcement powers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_police
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