Live data from Hacker News

Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

frankchimero.com

151–160 of 269 posts

Re: Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

#151
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is exactly why any of my hobby projects that involve JS are done with plain JS, with as few libraries as possible. I might pull in specific libraries, but I don't want to pull in a giant framework that will be outdated the next time I decide to work on that particular project.

A micro-library like https://redom.js.org/ does make things easier though. I have also given up on mega-frameworks - just too many things to keep in mind as I get older.

Here's my "femto-library" for creating DOM dynamically from JS:

    function ce(tag, attrs={}, children=[]){
     var el=document.createElement(tag);
     for(var attrName in attrs){
      el[attrName]=attrs[attrName];
     }
     for(var child of children){
      el.appendChild(child);
     }
     return el;
    };

Re: Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are spot on. And now, try OpenBSD. It's the next step in removing useless abstractions.

I'm an avid Linux user, completely unfamiliar with BSD. Could you shed some light on how it further removes abstractions? I don't mind trying it out by booting it from a usb

Linux is a large ecosystem, supporting many different functions (embedded to some extent; desktop; server; supercomputer clusters, etc). For any one of these, the other 'stuff' represents cruft. The BSDs (I am partial to NetBSD) tend to give you a basic substrate of 'the system', and you add what you need via 'packages'. It's a different philosophy, but no less valid.

Re: Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to make a complex web app today, that's easier than it was 20 years ago. The tools are infinitely better. That’s true if the web app is a SPA and uses React and doesn’t require much accessibility and uses Redux or doesn’t manage state and, and, and... Most web developers are limited to those conditions and most currently posted front end jobs are limited to those requirements. Technically what you said…

I'm able to make what people call a "web app", yet I honestly have no idea what React and Redux are, besides buzzwords, and what they are supposed to solve. But then there's also the problem of people relying on JavaScript at all for websites that would've been fine as a bunch of fully static HTML pages. It's as if these days you can't do software development without overengineering everything into oblivion.

You haven't at all responded to your parent comment whose premise was that many frontend devs cannot utilize the freedom that you are apparently enjoying.

IMO it's not the topic here if JS should at all be used. You won't catch me arguing with that -- my answer is almost always "NO!".

The topic was: "but can you make web pages like 20 years ago in the current frontend dev jobs market?" -- the answer that is "no" as well IMO.

Re: Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to make a complex web app today, that's easier than it was 20 years ago. The tools are infinitely better. That’s true if the web app is a SPA and uses React and doesn’t require much accessibility and uses Redux or doesn’t manage state and, and, and... Most web developers are limited to those conditions and most currently posted front end jobs are limited to those requirements. Technically what you said…

I'm able to make what people call a "web app", yet I honestly have no idea what React and Redux are, besides buzzwords, and what they are supposed to solve. But then there's also the problem of people relying on JavaScript at all for websites that would've been fine as a bunch of fully static HTML pages. It's as if these days you can't do software development without overengineering everything into oblivion.

Yes, many things are deliberately over engineered and that is largely due to limited capabilities of a specific tool or technique.

Re: Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

#155
post #17

At some point in my organization's press toward Ansible, I came to the realization that Ansible the product is yet another layer of abstraction that is there for its own sake, and of dubious value. I converted a simple script to patch stuff, something that is trivial to write and run, and the yum module behaves different enough from the command-line yum that I have to learn a different way to get and parse the output…

I'm with you on logs. The recent trend of "machine-readable" logs, encapsulated as JSON structs, adds so much complexity to the process, and makes them unscannable to the human eye. And yet for general use cases you're not getting anything a regex couldn't parse out of the log prefix.

In 2010 I could search a terabyte of logs with grep -F in under a minute. With a "modern" setup you can't even see your logs until you have Elisticsearch up and running.

Re: Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

#156
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I echo this. Currently working on CRUD app in golang. What an absolute mess and much slower than using established technologies.

I don't blame the language tbh. I blame the frameworks and tools (or the lack of) for web development. Look, I love node and javascript. But I can't deny it is is total mistake to use it in a business context for web dev when you have django, rails or Laravel. Same for Go and many other trendy tools.... Reinventing the well is not a good business unless you're in the wheels business.

We have been using WordPress for 15 years and it's been wonderful and easy the whole time. Occasionally if a plug-in gets compromised, it's very easy to roll back and fix it. We now have a standard set of safe plugins anyways.

Re: Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rare to see people go the other way I suspect this is literally true, but only because we don't see them. I've heard second-hand the story of a top developer at a famous unicorn who just couldn't keep up with all the stimulants everyone was using to code more and burned out, bought a cabin in the woods, and became a hermit.

> all the stimulants everyone was using to code more That's interesting. Do you mean Adderall/Ritalin? That stuff has a relatively fixed useful half-life. It doesn't work for as long as people might think. It also doesn't actually make thinking clearer. It makes people feel as if they are thinking more clearly. I don't feel like looking for it, but this has been studied and reported, somewhere. If you are referring t…

Cocaine, MDMA and LSD seem to be favourite drugs around town, here in BC. I mean, besides the usual marijuana, tobacco and beer.

Re: Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

#159
Potentially controversial view: it really doesn't matter how you do it and it probably never did. Dya think your audience knows if you're using tables or grid or flexbox or php or React or Flash or Perl or a huge image that looks like a web layout? Nope. If it works in a reasonable way, they're probably happy.

Re: Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

#160

The delineation of this argument is what made me switch to Linux. On Windows, things that should have been getting easy were getting harder for me: software management was getting worse, updates were getting worse, and everything that should "just work", just wouldn't. My experience on MacOS was just as bad, with all of the 32-bit apps I used gone in the wind. Now the 64-bit apps are up on the chopping block, and I h…

I love Linux based operating systems and I've used them pretty much exclusively for at least a decade now, and I agree with a lot of your post, but >By cutting away abstraction, I don't think I agree with this take. You haven't cut away abstraction, you've changed to a different kind of abstraction. Linux's 'everything is a file' abstraction is just that, an abstraction. >Linux is arranged masterfully, and makes the…

> You haven't cut away abstraction, you've changed to a different kind of abstraction.

Yes, Linux depends upon abstractions. Everything in computing is an abstraction, including those 1's and 0's that tell the processor what to do. (Anything below that is electrical engineering.) The differentiators are the complexity and stability of that abstraction. When people talk about "everything being a file", they are referring to lower level abstractions that are relatively simple and stable. Likewise, when people talk about HTML/CSS/JS they are referring to lower level abstractions that are relatively simple and stable. This is less true (sometimes significantly less true) when people start discussing frameworks/libraries, whether that's in Linux or web development.

Post reply on HN