A much more HN relevant question would be to ask how this decision might impact the future automation of work for these very same employees.
Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
151–160 of 1001 posts
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they unionize Amazon will close down the warehouse and open it somewhere else.
Maybe. They sure will threaten to. But fact is, Amazon has quite an investment in these warehouses and wages are really just one aspect of the calculus for whether or not to keep running the warehouse. Plus, if unionization makes its way to every Amazon warehouse, then everyone will compete on equal footing vis-a-vis wages.
If your idea (here: unionization) only works if you can manage to force everyone to accept it, it has no place in a modern Democratic society.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#153I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest for a small amount of union dues. That is not snark, it's a real statement. I legitimately do not understand it. Can someone who works/worked one of these jobs please explain it to me? I am so confused by how lopsided this was.
> I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest The whole "voting against your own interest" is hugely paternalistic and anti-democratic. People have their own set of values and interests. As an outsider without knowledge of the people to accuse them of voting against their own interest because they did not vote the way you wanted them to is the height of arrogance.
I mean, it is possible for one person to know certain things that another person does not, and further possible that the latter person WOULD act differently if they had that knowledge.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're underpaid enough as it is? Seriously, that's usually what it comes down to: Nobody wants to give up a dime for union dues when they're already barely making ends meet.
Aren’t Amazon workers paid more than average warehouse workers? ZipRecruiter shows the average in all states as under $15 [0] so an Amazon worker will likely make more than a worker in other warehouses. Doesn’t mean that they are rolling in the money, but makes me think higher wages is probably not a motivating factor for unionization. [0] https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Wa...
> ZipRecruiter shows the average in all states as under $15 [0] so an Amazon worker will likely make more than a worker in other warehouses.
Amazon workers make more than other non-unionized warehouses in the area, but they still make less than unionized warehouses. For example Piggly Wiggly warehouses make $20/hr on top of having vacation days and medical benefits.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
No idea, but the figure is in many news stories, and I don't see the union disputing it. The $500 figure seems to have come from the now defunct "doitwithoutdues.com" website that Amazon made. Strangely, it just says $500[1], and not "$500/month". But, "$500/month" is indeed in a lot of news stories[2]. Pretty sad for the union if the true figure is lower, and they failed to get that message out. Edit: Apparently it…
The second link is just a Google search. Here’s a link to an actual story that reports it as 500/year https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/early-vote-counts-sho...
Yes, there's lots of them saying $500/month.
https://apnews.com/article/what-to-know-amazon-union-vote-ex...
https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/2021/03/30/lighting-fuse-amaz...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-labor-union-push-alabama...
Though Amazon did seem to be saying $500/year in most of their messaging: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/a3uk0eKNWqaQAaE6u9Y8qjPmCJk=...
:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22289064/Screen_Shot_2021_02_08_at_9.25.32_AM.png){kind=link}
The "doitwithoutdues.com" site just said $500, without saying "month" or "year".
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#156Incognito tab didn't work, googling it didnt work, and outline.com didn't work. Anyone have any other tips or tricks for finding the article to read it?
You can subscribe to WSJ digital for $467.88/year.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#157Good. I have lived in 3 continents and 4 different countries and I have yet to see a union that is not run by and for the lazy and incompetent, ultimately to the ruin of all involved. I hear Germany cracked the code on that one, but in the US unions seem to be pretty much like everywhere.
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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I stay away from organizations that have a table that will tell you how much you'll make after N years. I don't think that's necessarily a characteristic of a union shop and if it is, those are probably minimums. For example, professional baseball players and are unionized yet individuals can still negotiate salary.
Why do you think the vagueness is in your favor? Especially for a warehouse worker, the job is doing rote tasks forever. Why wouldn’t they be able to project your salary into the future?
I think for a warehouse worker or any other job where people are basically fungible, unionizing is a no-brainer. Individuals have no leverage.
Unionizing can make sense for other types of jobs as well. The person I responded to mentioned their preference for having a direct relationship with an employer. To me, that means other types of places than warehouses because I doubt very much that many warehouse workers have a relationship with anybody above their direct supervisor.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aren’t Amazon workers paid more than average warehouse workers? ZipRecruiter shows the average in all states as under $15 [0] so an Amazon worker will likely make more than a worker in other warehouses. Doesn’t mean that they are rolling in the money, but makes me think higher wages is probably not a motivating factor for unionization. [0] https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Wa...
making $15/hour doesn't mean you suddenly have lots of money to make it rain. $15/hour means that a lot of people are just now at the point of barely making it vs the completely snowed under they were in at minimum wage
It's more than double of a federal poverty level.
Not a lot of money, but what else to expect from the job that requires minimum skills and no education?
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#160I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest for a small amount of union dues. That is not snark, it's a real statement. I legitimately do not understand it. Can someone who works/worked one of these jobs please explain it to me? I am so confused by how lopsided this was.
I think reasons will vary, and I didn’t vote in this event. But in previous situations I’ve not supported unionization due to how it favored existing workers in ways I thought were unfair in that all layoffs were due to seniority not performance so older workers would be kept and younger workers laid off, no matter what. It also established more rigid pay levels that were better on average but not as good for high pe…
Wow, so companies managed to "Prisoner's Dilemma"ed workers? Amazing, brilliant idea.