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The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

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Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#151

Post by Aeolun »

alisonkisk wrote: post #139
breakingcups wrote: post #108

Somehow, when the following two sentences are put together I lose all hope in the world's incentive structure: "Grapperhaus instituted a number of measures. [...] Companies would have to respond to a notification from the child pornography hotline without discussion within 24 hours" "In 2015, Ecatel became embroiled in a lengthy conflict with the Premier League in the UK over claims of illegal streaming of football m…

Football streams are live events. Pornography files generally aren't. The harm from pornography isn't in the viewing (except in a very diffuse sense, not per marginal view); it's in the creation which already happened. Keeping a pornography video up a bit longer is actually positive for law enforcement, since that provides viewer logs that law enforcement can investigate and likely make more arrests.

> since that provides viewer logs that law enforcement can investigate and likely make more arrests

By that logic we should leave it up indefinitely?

I find it hard to say that even a full illegal football stream hurts more people than even a second of leaving child pornography up.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#152

Post by JeremyBanks »

inetknght wrote: post #128
JeremyBanks wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen the news about the child predator congressman facing imminent indictment?

"Imminent indictment" isn't an indictment. It's just a tabloid headline.

If there were only one source, I'd agree with you. But we've had an avalanche of distinct sources coming forward on this story. It seems highly likely that charges are coming very soon. If you watch Fox, you might have missed it, since he was a recurring contributor to their network (fitting, given how many sexual predators they've employed) and they've been trying to downplay it.

But feel free to bury your hand in the sand.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#153

Post by nightwing »

smhost wrote: post #141
chr1 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean that images that are hand drawn or generated by neural net should be handled differently?

probably depends on what the training set was, or whether the hand-drawn image is similar enough to a person's appearance to convince a jury or something, but that's a technical point. i'm objecting on old-fashioned moralist grounds to the psycho who's advocating for legalizing child pornography.

Judging by history old fashioned moralist grounds tend to be a bit shaky, and often yield their positions;).

I don't advocate for one policy or another. In fact i'd be happy if i was wrong and the fight with numbers was actually useful. But i am rather sceptical about it, because the only argument its supporters have is "think of the children, you monster!"

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#154

Post by rowanG077 »

InCoffeeWeTrust wrote: post #138
rowanG077 wrote: post #50

Damn. Seems like I found the adres where I will get servers when I need them.

... you read an entire article detailing the hosting of child porn and this is the conclusion you've arrived at?

Yes definitely. It seems to me the hoster does everything that is required of it by law. Child porn is horrible but that doesn't mean the hoster should be responsible of policing the servers.

Law enforcement must go after the person who rented the server. That is the source of the problem. Going after the hoster is nothing but symptom relief.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#155

Post by FDSGSG »

This is a strange hit piece. Ecatel does not seek to serve CP distributors, too much trouble for very little money. The issue is that CP distributors are attracted to Ecatel because they're friendly to other controversial content.

Really law enforcement is to blame for not arresting these CP distributors causing trouble for Ecatel.

Ecatel doesn't protect criminals, I've been the subject of an investigation which involved servers there and they did everything the police asked of them.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#156

Post by jerrysievert »

vinay427 wrote: post #150
jerrysievert wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when flying back from china, the duty free shop asked me what my next airport was (Seattle) and whether it was a connecting flight or not (it was). at that point, they told me that they wouldn't sell me anything, as I would have it confiscated. they were correct, the international arrivals required another bag check to enter the domestic part of the airport, that had the stringent TSA rules (after you went through cu…

Just to confirm, you had a bag check for checked baggage after customs and before your domestic flight, and this was done by the TSA? I've flown into and around the US countless times, including international to domestic connections at SEA, and have never heard of this. Not doubting your experience because policies change, but every US airport I've flown into has customs and immigration after an international flight,…

you exited the international flight, went through customs, picked up your luggage, and then if you were continuing on to a domestic flight (which required getting past the secured area to the monorail), then you had to go through security again.

at this point, you could no longer have anything in your checked baggage that could not go through standard TSA security, as you were already inside the secured area. some airlines (Alaska, for instance) allowed you to check your baggage PAST that security area, but you still had to make it past.

since you had already picked up your checked baggage, and no longer could get to any connecting flights without either exiting the airport completely (far away from other flights), or going through security again with your luggage to continue to the monorail, you were pretty much screwed.

editing to add: there were a lot of very unhappy people who had their airline provided or purchased past security water bottles being taken away before they could continue to their domestic flights. I have no clue exactly how far I would have had to walk outside of security to get to the domestic terminal, but my flight was so soon that I would never have chanced it.

double editing to add that I've flown international through other airports and never had that type of experience other than through Seattle.

triple editing to note that even SEATAC seemed to think this was a mess and the new international arrivals terminal is due to open "soon".

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#157

Post by onetimeusename »

InCoffeeWeTrust wrote: post #130

Almost every entity has oversight measures implemented to safeguard it from criminal negligence. The laws in the Netherlands need to be updated to ensure that data hosting centres and their owners can't get away with criminal negligence. And to everyone complaining about this with a "but my free speech" excuse - there are extensive legal procedures which ensure that allegations of criminal negligence are conducted op…

There's a pretty enormous incentive to censor the internet.

As an example, Russia is threatening to ban Twitter completely citing child pornography laws[1]. It's pretty straightforward how a law like this gets abused. I think the question is, do you trust governments enough to give them the power to censor the internet?

[1]: https://apnews.com/article/russia-threaten-block-twitter-726...

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#158

Post by sennight »

0cVlTeIATBs wrote: post #143
sennight wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How fast does the ban hammer need to be to restore your hope? You know that "porn filtration", regularly used to justify state censorship, always ends up filtering speech that the state just doesn't want heard? I forget from where the latest porn blacklist leaked, either NZ or AU, but it was full of sites the likes of WikiLeaks.

I believe GP's criticism is the imbalance in priority which hints at how money has leverage in the courts.

Which means very little in light of my criticism: "think of the children" is a pretense and there is no shortage of people who still fall for it. Complaining about the subterfuge not aligning with your ideals is just goofy.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#159

Post by charcircuit »

Aeolun wrote: post #151
alisonkisk wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Football streams are live events. Pornography files generally aren't. The harm from pornography isn't in the viewing (except in a very diffuse sense, not per marginal view); it's in the creation which already happened. Keeping a pornography video up a bit longer is actually positive for law enforcement, since that provides viewer logs that law enforcement can investigate and likely make more arrests.

> since that provides viewer logs that law enforcement can investigate and likely make more arrests By that logic we should leave it up indefinitely? I find it hard to say that even a full illegal football stream hurts more people than even a second of leaving child pornography up.

>By that logic we should leave it up indefinitely?

You probably don't want to continue hosting it as some visitors to your website might leave your site or it may cause PR issues if you keep it up.

>than even a second of leaving child pornography up

There is no harm do doing that. Child porn is a single internet search away and people into that kind of stuff probably already have those kind of sites bookmarked. A few random visitors seeing those kind of images is not going to hurt anyone. A full illegal stream is a potential lost sale where a second of child porn doesn't really do much since there already exist many free alternatives on the internet.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#160

Post by sennight »

Aeolun wrote: post #151
alisonkisk wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Football streams are live events. Pornography files generally aren't. The harm from pornography isn't in the viewing (except in a very diffuse sense, not per marginal view); it's in the creation which already happened. Keeping a pornography video up a bit longer is actually positive for law enforcement, since that provides viewer logs that law enforcement can investigate and likely make more arrests.

> since that provides viewer logs that law enforcement can investigate and likely make more arrests By that logic we should leave it up indefinitely? I find it hard to say that even a full illegal football stream hurts more people than even a second of leaving child pornography up.

The FBI disagrees, as they effectively operated one massive CP hidden service for something like a week after collaring the administrator. So how many children did they repeatedly victimize in that time? Zero, if you go off the number of agents prosecuted over it.
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