Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#151

Post by Cd00d » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:53 AM UTC

I'm a little shocked by this. I thought the big tech companies and Google specifically were leading the charge in "we will allow significant WFH forever going forward", but maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.

Personally, I'm at a small data company, and we're opening a new office for people where WFH is a burden (NYC apartments and all), but is so far voluntary. In fact, I think there are only seats for less than 1/3 of the company. I've been really impressed with how smoothly everyone shifted to all zoom all the time mode, and honestly, my small conference room meetings have been more productive the last year.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#152

Post by nlitened » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:57 AM UTC

noisy_boy wrote: post #142

I think this is mostly driven by management's insecurities / needs to see their "subjects" right in front of them and their typical need to "show" their activities in an obvious/noisy way. Typical managers tend to be extroverts and find allies in other extroverts or in people who happen to work in/enjoy the social interaction in office. Unfortunately there is not much representation of introverts in the decision maki…

I would imagine that in Google most managers would be former engineers. If that is true, there might be more to the story rather than introverts/extraverts split.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#153

Post by dehrmann » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

person_of_color wrote: post #105

tyingq wrote: post #104

And, now that they don't have to be first, Amazon is in: Amazon updates remote work guidance, plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’ https://www.geekwire.com/2021/amazon-updates-remote-work-gui... oof.

Today is a big disaster for those who foresaw changes in the workplace. Now we have only tier 2 companies (Dropbox/Spotify) who have gone full remote.

Spotify didn't go "full remote"

> ...we are giving employees the opportunity to elect a Work Mode—whether they’d prefer to work mostly at home or in the office...

https://newsroom.spotify.com/2021-02-12/distributed-first-is...

They also have a 17-year lease on space in 4 World Trade Center.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#154

Post by laurent92 » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

hyko wrote: post #140

When will introverts realise that their working conditions are being dictated to them by extroverts? The pandemic-driven remote working is hell for some people, and unfortunately they call the shots. I don’t mind coming into your office now and again (there’s a special dimension to IRL connections), but the reason I don’t want to work there full time is that it’s crap for knowledge work. I outspend you by 10x per hea…

Our political conditions are also driven by extroverts. Our promotions are also driven by extroverts. Our insurance for the house, and the value we add as programmers, extroverts organize the world and take their share. I consider being extrovert as a quality for many things, and one has to learn to be versatile, even if I don’t like it personally.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#155

Post by gear54rus » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

hyko wrote: post #140

When will introverts realise that their working conditions are being dictated to them by extroverts? The pandemic-driven remote working is hell for some people, and unfortunately they call the shots. I don’t mind coming into your office now and again (there’s a special dimension to IRL connections), but the reason I don’t want to work there full time is that it’s crap for knowledge work. I outspend you by 10x per hea…

It's broader than that. Their whole life is being dictated by extroverts (teaming up with other extraverts, something introverts cannot do). And that's why one should strive to shift as much into extroverted state as possible and defend their opinion and find allies.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#156

Post by ipaddr » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:59 AM UTC

hedora wrote: post #102

Schweigi wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck, it's not even good enough for 1 day at home per week. It's basically only useful for cases where you need to stay home because of a sick kid or someone is coming over for house repair/maintenance.

I’ve never worked somewhere where that sort of thing was tracked. It sounds like Google will be tracking moving forward. Uggh.

Not if you choose to not opt in. If you choose to not opt-in you will still take those days but you will be unable to work from home around whatever emergency or appointment you have.

It's a trick.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#157

Post by hrktb » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 6:04 AM UTC

azurezyq wrote: post #48

humanrebar wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...whether you know someone in the other team matters a lot... I was kind of hoping the remote work experience would help folks make that sort of inside baseball less important. There are real equity concerns to consider, but practically speaking, you end up with narrower and less open decision-making processes in general. It's definitely a complicated subject, but maybe some folks are partly missing some privilege…

I have to say it's human nature. When asking for a favor, you always feel more comfortable if the other guy had a nice chat with you yesterday. There are always things cannot be easily rationalized via formal processes.

It goes both ways though. Up until now the nice chat zone was limited to people on the same floor. With WFH we got people in other countries joigning the chats on equal footing.

The info density difference also seem to be compensated by everyone being more open and comfortable (not packed in noisy office for the day)

There's definitely less random chats, it's more formal and less intense, but also broader and the hurdle is lower.

I think for companies above some size it's not better or worse, just different.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#158

Post by chucky » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 6:04 AM UTC

petre wrote: post #148

ralph84 wrote: post #61

> If employees want to work from home beyond Sept. 1, they will need to formally apply for a max of 14 days annually Somehow this sounds to me like: "Oh, and remember: next Friday... is Hawaiian shirt day. So, you know, if you want to, go ahead and wear a Hawaiian shirt and jeans."

That's even more tiring than going to work everyday. Now you have to shop for a shirt that you'll probably never wear again.

It's an Office Space reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p8Ni1sXBLk

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#159

Post by tudorconstantin » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 6:06 AM UTC

hyko wrote: post #140

When will introverts realise that their working conditions are being dictated to them by extroverts? The pandemic-driven remote working is hell for some people, and unfortunately they call the shots. I don’t mind coming into your office now and again (there’s a special dimension to IRL connections), but the reason I don’t want to work there full time is that it’s crap for knowledge work. I outspend you by 10x per hea…

I'm totally not an introvert: I love being around nice people, I love playing table tennis and having lunch with my colleagues. But wasting 1h-2h daily on commuting to/from work is in absolutely no way worthy of this.

It's our duty as human beings to resist going back to the office as much as possible. To gain back some of the life we otherwise would spend on commute. Work is for work, not for socializing, or having fun, or playing Xbox and table tennis. I mean, sure, these are nice perks, but we are being paid for the work we do, not for the fun we have. And working without being distracted by some colleagues loud music in the headphones, or the chit chat of others, or the "sorry, quick question" of some manager, improves my quality of work tremendously.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#160

Post by cozzyd » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 6:13 AM UTC

frongpik wrote: post #134

throwawaysea wrote: post #42

This focus on returning to work or a hybrid model really seems like a missed chance to pivot the economy in a new direction. It would be great if these companies let employees work remotely full time if they choose. That'll allow people to have more freedom in where and how they live, and also distribute the economy more evenly. Right now, working for big tech companies means having to live in one of a few big city c…

This also proves that the climate change initiative is a wash. They can't take co2 emissions seriously and at the same time demand 100k employees to spend 1 hour a day driving to offices. That's like what, 100 millions gallons of gas per year, or 1 gigaton of co2, burned needlessly, only to improve some corporate metrics.

Or you can take the bus or train?