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Early-Retirement Update

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Re: Early-Retirement Update

#151

Post by birdyrooster »

mathgladiator wrote: post #95
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #68

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

I'm going to start blogging about FIRE from the other extreme end. I'm a principal engineer making serious dollars, and I'm writing down my playbook. I intend to "Fat-FIRE", and the only reason I don't retire now is to see how much I can leverage my position to do crazy shit at massive scale. Paradoxically, this sets me up for larger windfalls because I can take risks that my peers do not take.

Would be more boring than the OP, probably a waste of time to even write the brag piece.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#152

Post by ed25519FUUU »

sfblah wrote: post #111
neogodless wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with the minor and major shocks in his life, he ended up with 20% more money than he started with. The main reason he wants more money now is that he wants to share it with his new partner, and enjoy some lifestyle inflation. So I don't think it makes sense to extrapolate "leanFIRE cannot sustain minor shocks" from his circumstances." It certainly cannot sustain a certain level of lifestyle inflation, or (more g…

The 20% gain is 100% a consequence of the Fed and the market mania. This experiment attempted in another 5-year span would have worked out totally differently.

The largest pitfall is definitely housing. He mentions not wanting to own a home. He also must accept that rent rises faster than inflation, and he may have to move every few years to cheaper and cheaper places to keep things balanced.

If you can’t guarantee you’ll be able to stay in your community, with your friends and family, for the rest of you days, what’s the point? Moving sucks. Not being able to eliminate moving is a huge lifestyle and stress liability.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#153

Post by sys_64738 »

Some people like to say they need to work to not be bored. I'd rather just be bored. If I didn't need to work then I wouldn't and I'd rather be bored with it. But I have plenty of stuff I could be doing instead of wasting life doing work.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#154

Post by nightski »

jsdalton wrote: post #38
xwdv wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, financial independence is what matters in a world where returns on capital will greatly outperform returns on labor.

Out of curiosity where are you finding high returns on capital today? I just don’t see them. (As an engineer, conversely, I see very high returns on my labor.)

I have been dollar cost averaging straight into VTSAX for the past couple of years and have seen something like a 40% annualized return lol. That probably won't continue, but what a ride.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#155

Post by adkadskhj »

GordonS wrote: post #137
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just FIRE people, but 99% of all retirees at any age end up doing nothing of note with their time. But, and I think you aren't saying otherwise, this is also true of everyone who still has to work, while they are working. Your job is just the thing you have to do (if you are lucky you actually enjoy it). Bottom line, most people don't actually have a purpose or strong passions in their lives. Being retired young…

> Not just FIRE people, but 99% of all retirees at any age end up doing nothing of note with their time. If you spend some years just chilling and and are actually happy, then sure, why not. But there are so many retired people who do nothing, and are not happy. For example, my mother, my mother and father in law, my other father in law, my grandmother - all retired, and all do absolutely nothing but watch TV and moa…

I think it depends on who you are. I can't fathom not doing something. I want to retire, asap, though not FIRE-levels, but i know what i want to do. I want to do exactly what i do in my current off hours, which looks a lot like work. Because it is work. I want to work, when i retire. I just want to work on whatever i want to work on.

Which is the rub. Passionate people will be busy, all the time. Without it.. well, i can't even envision how to live.

I think parents need to help their children find hobbies. Find passions. Develop passions. You don't _have_ to be excellent at piano or whatever. I don't care what it is, be it games, wood working, farming, etc - but i feel like it is essential to the human experience.

But.. i've got an isolated view. So.. YMMV.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#156

Post by schnevets »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #108
dimmke wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had friends with trust funds, who just seem to dither around in life. "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE" It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yours…

I don't know. I'd love to have a basic level of income and then be able to dither around with random jobs. I'd love to be a bartender for 6 months, work in a bookstore for 6 months, become a carpenter for a year or two. I'd probably feel differently if I actually had a trust fund since my upbringing would be different but it does feel stifling that in order to have a financially rewarding career one has to stay on a…

I frequently have similar fantasies and have to consciously remind myself that I can get the same happiness in my current role.

When I think of opening a bar/restaurant, I'm actually just hoping for more quality time with friends.

When I think of opening a bookstore, I'm actually just hoping for more time to focus on reading.

When I think of becoming a cook, I'm actually just hoping for more passion and drive in the thing I make professionally.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#157

Post by guidoism »

hintymad wrote: post #83
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #68

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

Well said. I'd also add that frugality does not work very well when you have kids. You would want to buy time if you don't want to spend all your time with kids. That means baby sitters, nannies, coaches, and classes for extracurricular activities. Besides, not every parent is good at coaching or tutoring their kids. Given the education quality of the US, you'd have to pay for additional education unless you're the l…

Not going to argue about having to spend money to get some time away from the kids. But education? If you retire then you have the time to unschool your children and while your family and friends will think you are crazy your children will get a much better education than anything that involves money.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#158

Post by kelnos »

pbuzbee wrote: post #109

Sounds like OP's spouse was the tipping point. If they stayed on the same page, I wonder if things would've gone differently (ignoring the medical issues which aren't trivial, of course). The OP seems content to live a life without work. For him, by far the main reason to work was for income. If you don't want to work, then why keep doing so when you no longer need income to fuel your lifestyle? Obviously people are…

Yeah, OP pointed out that he started drifting away from many of his friends because they were too focused on earning and spending as a goal in and of itself, and they were no longer compatible. But he still had a core group of friends who he still felt close to and understood his lifestyle.

It's possible his spouse just didn't have that. Sure, you can always say "get better friends", but that's easier said than done, and it has to be a huge shock to be unable to relate to all of the people you've counted as friends over the past decade or more, and watch your friendships die away. It's even worse if those former "friends" are judging you negatively for not "keeping up" with them.

I do expect that to happen with some of my friends (I'm FI, but haven't yet pulled the RE trigger). Some of them with similar levels of FI (or at least the potential) are still very focused on work and building (or helping to build) companies, and don't seem to want to change that. I'm happy for them that they're able to do that freely, without financial worries, but I'm (sadly) sure that we'll drift apart once I retire. Fortunately I do have a solid group of friends who have similar goals as I do, or at least understand and support the life I want, so I expect those friendships to remain strong.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#159

Post by dimmke »

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #120
dimmke wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had friends with trust funds, who just seem to dither around in life. "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE" It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yours…

Not just FIRE people, but 99% of all retirees at any age end up doing nothing of note with their time. But, and I think you aren't saying otherwise, this is also true of everyone who still has to work, while they are working. Your job is just the thing you have to do (if you are lucky you actually enjoy it). Bottom line, most people don't actually have a purpose or strong passions in their lives. Being retired young…

>but at least you have more space to confront that void and just maybe find some purpose or passion

This is what I'm talking about. It's likely much harder to do this when you retire at a normal age after having lived most of your life. But if you retire in your 30s or 40s? Or your 20s!? Good lord.

Think of all the great companies that get started and then snapped up by the big boys because the founders want to become millionaires. Imagine if there was zero pressure to take an exit when offered. I believe our world would be in a better place. I don't want to just highlight companies, but companies can scale and affect change in a way that just volunteering or simple philanthropy cannot in our society.

That's why I think so called "Lean FIRE" is such a bad trap. You're giving yourself very little margin to explore new purposes and passions. It's a much bigger bet that you're going to be satisfied watching TV and going for day trips to Niagara Falls the rest of your life.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#160

Post by beforeolives »

didibus wrote: post #52

It's nice to see someone's honest thoughts. Though I can't help but find the person a little judgemental of their prior partner, or people who don't mind working. I also feel like they must have had a strange group of friends, 30k is the US median income, but it seems they only had friends making way more and also somehow being money obsessed. I do like the conclusion though, we're social animals, and the issue with…

> That means once you have financial freedom from work, you're free to see work as a hobby, and be much pickier about what work you do, where you work, how you allow yourself to be treated at work, etc. Since you know you can walk out at any time, since work isn't something you depend on. It gives you the big end of the stick in negotiating with employers, and that in itself is freeing.

You can get this if your skills are currently in demand and have a few months of expenses saved up. You don't need to get to financial independence to have a healthy relationship with your job.

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