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Let there be more biographies of failures

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Re: Let there be more biographies of failures

#151

Post by mdip »

zerealshadowban wrote: post #83
mdip wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thinking is that many of the kinds of engineering failure stories you refer to are about the failure, itself, or the victims of the failure (Therac-25, for example), but not often primarily about a single individual's life of failure (or even a single individual's sole role in a failure). They might also be about the engineering teams/groups involved (Challenger explosion) and sometimes about a specific engineer (…

Yes, the populist-biography kind of writing you describe is unsatisfactory, to say the least; the reason I point to Petroski's work is that he did not write like that. Another great book to read to examine modes of engineering failure is Feynman's "What Do You Care What Other People Think?" which includes some of his thoughts on the Challenger disaster.

Thanks - I haven't read either of those, but based on your description, I'll be checking them out.

Re: Let there be more biographies of failures

#152

Post by olivertaylor »

the_greyd wrote: post #147
olivertaylor wrote: post #12

Amen! I've found that 9 times out of 10 successful people follow the same advice and believe the same things as unsuccessful people (at least they SAY they do). So it's really useful to look at people who failed yet followed the same advice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

If I understand, we are talking about a very narrow definition of success and failure here, professional success which is recognition, fame and riches? That seems to be a rare product of being lucky; where what you like doing and what you have an aptitude for, is exactly what's needed by the society in the field you're working in. Then you need to know the right people and be in the right place to get the recognition…

Well put! But I do think there are people who are uniquely skilled at seeing things align around them and using it to their advantage, and that can take place is any context, not just professional success.

Re: Let there be more biographies of failures

#153

Post by olivertaylor »

mdip wrote: post #25
olivertaylor wrote: post #12

Amen! I've found that 9 times out of 10 successful people follow the same advice and believe the same things as unsuccessful people (at least they SAY they do). So it's really useful to look at people who failed yet followed the same advice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

> So it's really useful to look at people who failed yet followed the same advice. Both are useful, yes. With no evidence, what-so-ever, my gut is that both are a lot less useful than we give them credit for. My Dad is a success by most of societies measures (and all of my own). A biography of his life couldn't possibly share enough advice to teach someone else to be successful. I could do it pretty easily: Work hard…

There are, of course, lots of ways to define success, but if you're talking about running a business then your Dad's experience largely matches what I've seen in my professional life (small business).

The interesting thing to me is that the desire to work that hard, and sacrifice that much, is largely an innate trait, not a conscience decision (at least that's been what I've seen). And the people who struggle the most are not those who work the most but who are torn because they WANT one thing but lack the inherent traits required to do it.

Personally, I don't think that professional success and money are good reasons to work that hard. Working that hard is gratifying in and of itself (to some people) because it teaches you things about the world, helps forge relationships with people, and forces you to develop skills you didn't know would benefit you later in life.

Re: Let there be more biographies of failures

#154

Post by samspot »

bjt wrote: post #51
olivertaylor wrote: post #12

Amen! I've found that 9 times out of 10 successful people follow the same advice and believe the same things as unsuccessful people (at least they SAY they do). So it's really useful to look at people who failed yet followed the same advice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

On top of the survivorship bias I would add the fundamental attribution error, or a close cousin to it. Our stories about successful people tend to attribute their success to inherent qualities and under-emphasize the role of their environment, especially just getting lucky.

After reading a few business books I noticed that everyone uses the same case studies (i.e. Toyota) but claims the companies were successful because of the title of the book I happen to be reading.
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