Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 204 posts

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#151

Post by mensetmanusman »

tumetab1 wrote: post #132
mrweasel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kicking out Apple manufactoring won’t happen, because it’s actually dangerous to Chinese manufactoring. Apple is currently one of the only companies who could deal with being banned in China. It won’t be cheap or easy, but Apple could move manufactoring. They already have a deal with an Indian company who makes older iPhones for the indian market. Apple is also one of the few companies who can either absorb the addit…

You're assuming the shareholders would support such decision. Keep in mind there's a legal mandate for public traded companies to increase share holders value. It's grey-ish legal requirement but I don't think the executive management wants to risk the legal consequences of doing the right thing. Edit: it's shareholders and not stakeholders that matter.

You can make an argument that it increases shareholder value long term because if China increases human rights, it increases the shareholder value of the world in monetary terms because people will be better off.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#152

Post by lotsofpulp »

tumetab1 wrote: post #132
mrweasel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kicking out Apple manufactoring won’t happen, because it’s actually dangerous to Chinese manufactoring. Apple is currently one of the only companies who could deal with being banned in China. It won’t be cheap or easy, but Apple could move manufactoring. They already have a deal with an Indian company who makes older iPhones for the indian market. Apple is also one of the few companies who can either absorb the addit…

You're assuming the shareholders would support such decision. Keep in mind there's a legal mandate for public traded companies to increase share holders value. It's grey-ish legal requirement but I don't think the executive management wants to risk the legal consequences of doing the right thing. Edit: it's shareholders and not stakeholders that matter.

> Keep in mind there's a legal mandate for public traded companies to increase share holders value. It's grey-ish legal requirement but I don't think the executive management wants to risk the legal consequences of doing the right thing.

What are the legal consequences? I keep reading about these mysterious laws that require management to maximize shareholder value or profits or whatnot, but I’ve never heard of a court punishing management for not doing so (never mind the fact that it’s impossible to define and prove per legal standards).

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#153

Post by CountSessine »

tw04 wrote: post #138
elmomle wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The world does exist outside of Silicon Valley. I can get exactly what you're describing in over half of this country, pick your state including the entirety of the midwest. This is equivalent to saying sky-high housing prices in Tokyo didn't need fixing, since folks could always just live in Hokkaido--a pragmatic absurdity. A city is a giant organism that needs people to play a variety of roles in order to thrive.…

>This is equivalent to saying sky-high housing prices in Tokyo didn't need fixing, since folks could always just live in Hokkaido--a pragmatic absurdity. It isn't even remotely the equivalent of saying that. The land mass of Japan is a fraction of the US, and the jobs are highly concentrated in their large cities. The US, as a whole, is nothing like that. Regardless, it was a pointless argument for him to make in the…

It isn't even remotely the equivalent of saying that. The land mass of Japan is a fraction of the US, and the jobs are highly concentrated in their large cities. The US, as a whole, is nothing like that.

Most US industrial production is concentrated in about 5 regions. The US isn't that different.

Regardless, it was a pointless argument for him to make in the first place, he was just moving goal posts by trying to equate calling employees parasites to San Francisco zoning laws

Nonsense. Housing costs are the great misery-multiplier in the West and it isn't specific to SF. Look at Berlin or London or Paris or Toronto. Everywhere the dysfunction is the same and everywhere the working poor live with crushing housing insecurity, in spite of living in thriving job markets. With reasonable urban housing prices and rent most of the people in the "working poor" would advance to middle-class status and a lot of the inequality issues we have would be tractable. Instead, we just keep ignoring pricing theory and we just keep dumping more wealth into supply-constrained markets and we just keep wondering why these problems don't get any better.

There was absolutely no point going down that path other than to distract from his original (disgusting) statement and implying that somehow people wanting more than minimum wage

Ptooey! Pardon me, but I had to spit out all of the words you're stuffing in my mouth. I said nothing about minimum wage. You did. This is the same neurotic defective programming I'm talking about. The projection of intent in your response is what's disgusting.

Which again... is completely irrelevant to the vast majority of the population of the US.

Go look up what a lower-middle class family needs to pay for rent in suburbs in Atlanta or Austin or other cities with good job opportunities.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#155

Post by jonathannat »

nomel wrote: post #150
jonathannat wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The western world can't. I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but supply chains have been moving to Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia/India/Mexico for the last few years, and the trend is only increasing. There's literally a growing military alliance (US, India, Australia, Japan) against China right now. Also not to mention other countries (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, US) actively incentivizing their companies to…

It appears that Apple is part of that trend: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-foxconn-vietnam-apple-exc...

Incomplete list of companies moving out of China.

Adidas & Lacoste: https://www.glossy.co/fashion/lacoste-and-adidas-pledge-to-c...

Nike: https://www.gq.com/story/nike-adidas-shifting-production-asi...

Hasbro: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/23/hasbro-to-cut-china-producti...

Samsung: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-china/samsun...

GoPro: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/10/gopro-is-moving-camera-produ...

LG Electronics: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=5...

Sharp: https://9to5mac.com/2019/08/02/out-of-china/

Hyundai: https://tfipost.com/2020/04/big-hyundai-steel-and-several-ot...

Nintendo: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/gaming/2019/07/09/ninten...

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#156

Post by coliveira »

CountSessine wrote: post #81
topspin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP The western world can't. The world is only so big and the remaining sites of refuge for cheap, exploitable labor and Potemkin regulatory regimes are few. Almost any alternative place you might cite is either already beholden to China (the viable parts of Africa) or too unstable (due to endemic corruption, external threa…

Yes - because manufacturing in the West is ultimately self-defeating. Success breeds complacency and labor unrest. This isn't just a China-thing (I have no idea what your Potemkin regulation is or why you would mix those metaphors). When Westerners see an absurdly profitable company, they think, "why aren't they paying their employees more??!" and start a union to parasitize earnings. When Asians (including the Japan…

You're right, except that it is not unionized workers parasitizing profits (unions are decreasing in numbers everywhere), it is shareholders parasitizing companies to extract whatever value they can. This is the big difference. In Asia, shareholders don't have the power to parasitize profits, and they allow ample competition between manufacturers. See, for example, the absurd situation of Apple. Americans think it is nice to have a single company nearly monopolizing device production, as if it were their right. In Asia people would have already started hundreds of companies to fight their monopolistic advantage (as they currently have in China).

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#157

Post by gonehome »

jonathannat wrote: post #133
topspin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP The western world can't. The world is only so big and the remaining sites of refuge for cheap, exploitable labor and Potemkin regulatory regimes are few. Almost any alternative place you might cite is either already beholden to China (the viable parts of Africa) or too unstable (due to endemic corruption, external threa…

> The western world can't. I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but supply chains have been moving to Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia/India/Mexico for the last few years, and the trend is only increasing. There's literally a growing military alliance (US, India, Australia, Japan) against China right now. Also not to mention other countries (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, US) actively incentivizing their companies to…

Agreed - I suspect Apple (and others) are doing this as fast as they can to de-risk.

They can't blow up their existing relationships in the mean time, but they can blow them up once they have another option in place. At the very least, they'll have more leverage in negotiation.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#158

Post by [deleted] »

reaperducer wrote: post #60
anon9001 wrote: post #38

Technically, what's going on here? "CAID" isn't a public iOS technology, and the article doesn't say what it means. Some googling returns: https://mmachina.cn/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/MMA%E4%B8%AD%... Apparently it means "CAA Advertising Id", where "CAA" appears to be the "Creative Artists Agency", some sort of Chinese advertising group. (edit: wrong organization, it's actually "Chinese Anonymization ID", not a gro…

In the US, the analogy would be if apps had tracking SDKs in them, that fingerprinted users across apps, in order to better target them for advertisements, and then the US government can pick up that data and do whatever they'd like with it. I've never really thought about it before, but it would be pretty easy for a three-letter agency to set up an online advertising company for this purpose. They start their own ai…

[deleted]

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#159

Post by coliveira »

reaperducer wrote: post #64
schiang wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn't just provide supply chain anymore. They are also a huge market now because of its growing middle class. China has money to spend and US companies need to tap into that market.

China has money to spend and US companies need to tap into that market. "Choose to" tap into that market. No company "needs" to be in China. Just like there are thousands of companies in Europe that do not do business in the United States, and thousands of companies in Brazil that do not do business in Russia.

And how big are these European or Brazilian companies? That's all fine if the US wants to become a 3rd tier economy. But if the country wants to expand, it has to trade with China.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#160

Post by carmen_sandiego »

summerlight wrote: post #139
rootusrootus wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google opted out of the Chinese market because it violated their principles? They didn't try to make a censored Chinese version of Google?

A part of Google tried to do so and the majority of its employee (enough to scare its senior executives) fiercely rejected that attempt, so it gets overturned.

Is that true? A _majority_ of Google employees protested Dragonfly? Last I heard there was a petition with just ~1% of them on it.
Post reply on HN