Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Transplant an organ? Why not an entire body?

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 201 posts

Re: Transplant an organ? Why not an entire body?

#151

Post by JKCalhoun »

dehrmann wrote: post #20
JKCalhoun wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A colleague went on once about Star Trek transporters: what if they worked by "scanning" a person, sent that data over the airwaves, then, made a perfect copy of somewhere else (sourcing new molecules from wherever) — would this copy believe they were the original? He went on: suppose you kill the original — did you "transport" the person? Star Trek creeps me out a little now.

Did they just watch "The Prestige?"

Thanks for pointing out a film, but this was 30 years ago!

Re: Transplant an organ? Why not an entire body?

#152

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

the8472 wrote: post #90
keiferski wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really complex topic, but just to throw out a few questions: - Why is our perceptible self the only thing that should determine our sense of identity? Aren’t there many aspects of our body and mind that aren’t we aren’t aware of on a conscious level? - Is there a point at which replacing your organs replaces You? This is called the Ship of Theseus and is a pretty deep problem. - Is the ability to be conscio…

> - Is there a point at which replacing your organs replaces You? This is called the Ship of Theseus and is a pretty deep problem. Not really. Your molecules turn over in a matter of days to years anyway (depending on the tissue and compounds in question). All that remains is information encoded in larger structures that are retained across that turnover. And the largest part of that is in the brain. > - Why is our p…

https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=1879

Today we solved the Ship of Theseus, and yesterday I solved that one with the tree in the forest that makes a sound so I feel like we can finish solving philosophy by the end of the week.

Re: Transplant an organ? Why not an entire body?

#153

Post by tsimionescu »

ImprobableTruth wrote: post #130
lambda_obrien wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If our body is not a part of our mind, then where does the mind exist? Are we just loops of code controlling a mechanism? I'm curious why you casually toss away the possibility that our bodies and self are one inseparable thing when no scientist has yet been able to even get close to separating the two via any means. Our brains work through physical means with electrical and chemical impulses, so why think that the m…

If the mind extended to other parts of the body, I'd expect there to be tons of evidence for it, but there seems to be none. Like, with the brain we know that the mind is deeply linked to it because it's just very obvious. Brain damage heavily impacts cognition, people lose memories, their personalities change, they lose the capacity to feel certain things or certain concepts - we even have some idea of damaging what…

While I agree with you, I would add that most glands add a wrinkle to what you are saying. Hormones significantly impact personality and reactions, and their secretion is not happening in the brain. Now, the direction of causation is of course debatable, especially in a healthy person, but do you believe that replacing ovaries with testicles (assuming we were able to do it) would have no impact on the mind of the person? Or replacing a hyper-active thyroid with a regular one?

Re: Transplant an organ? Why not an entire body?

#154

Post by [deleted] »

keiferski wrote: post #52

The fact that this is uncontroversial to a lot of people mostly just shows how intellect-focused our society has become. Plenty of other value systems treat the Self as the entire body, not merely the head. Perhaps if we did too, we might not have so many issues with obesity and drug abuse. Dualism has consequences. I once read someone describe academics as “floating heads with bodies attached.” I think that could ap…

[deleted]

Re: Transplant an organ? Why not an entire body?

#156

Post by dmichulke »

“This, milord, is my family's axe.

We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade.

And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation . . . but is this not the nine hundred-year-old axe of my family?

And because it has changed gently over time, it is still a pretty good axe, y'know. Pretty good.”

- T. Pratchett - "The fifth elefant"

Re: Transplant an organ? Why not an entire body?

#157

Post by tsimionescu »

the8472 wrote: post #90
keiferski wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really complex topic, but just to throw out a few questions: - Why is our perceptible self the only thing that should determine our sense of identity? Aren’t there many aspects of our body and mind that aren’t we aren’t aware of on a conscious level? - Is there a point at which replacing your organs replaces You? This is called the Ship of Theseus and is a pretty deep problem. - Is the ability to be conscio…

> - Is there a point at which replacing your organs replaces You? This is called the Ship of Theseus and is a pretty deep problem. Not really. Your molecules turn over in a matter of days to years anyway (depending on the tissue and compounds in question). All that remains is information encoded in larger structures that are retained across that turnover. And the largest part of that is in the brain. > - Why is our p…

I think the parent poster makes a point not that the mind should be considered to be distributed throughout the body, but that "your identity" should extend beyond just your mind. So that even if your mind is not in your hand, your hand should still be part of your identity.

I don't think I agree, but it doesn't seem preposterous either.

Re: Transplant an organ? Why not an entire body?

#158

Post by JoeAltmaier »

dmichulke wrote: post #156

“This, milord, is my family's axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation . . . but is this not the nine hundred-year-old axe of my family? And because it has changed gently over time, it is still a pretty good axe, y'know. Pretty good.” - T. Prat…

Or the axe George Washington used to chop down the cherry tree. Had 2 new heads and three new handles, but its the same axe!

Re: Transplant an organ? Why not an entire body?

#159

Post by tsimionescu »

cute_boi wrote: post #24

Is there such thing called transplanting a body? I thought it would be transplanting a brain because brain is part where memories etc live? Yea there are some philosophical queries but you know ...

In general you think of transplant as taking an organ from a donor (who doesn't need it anymore, in some sense) and giving it to a living patient. But it doesn't make sense to say that you are taking someone's brain to help keep someone else alive: the patient who is saved is the one with the living brain, not the body. There are various discussions and complications around identity, but I don't think anyone doubts that the person who wakes up would go home to the house of the brain, not the house of the body (to reduce this to a very simplistic notion of identity).
Post reply on HN