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Open source projects should run office hours

simonwillison.net

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Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#151

Post by simonw »

chalst wrote: post #86
chrismorgan wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve come across it in various largely-Americentric writing and figured out the concept, but yeah, it’s not something I’ve seen practised in Australia. It means “I will always be available in my office during such-and-such hours every week, for anyone to come and talk to.” I think it’s normally a walk-in affair rather than involving making appointments. First come, first serve, but now you don’t have to go through th…

It's common in Germany, called "Sprechstunde" ("speaking hours").

That's a better name for it than "office hours" I think!

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#152

Post by matkoniecz »

simonw wrote: post #148
matkoniecz wrote: post #90

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

The curse of snappy titles. A clearer version of my message is in the third paragraph: "I’d like to encourage more open source project maintainers to consider doing something similar."

I 100% agree with that version!

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#153

Post by bregma »

whizzter wrote: post #114
matkoniecz wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I referred specifically to the title in my comment. It is part of things personally irritating to me, and something what is biggest threat to small open source projects that I like. People are mistaken in thinking that having an open source project implies any obligation beyond lack of malice. And people tired by dealing with that are one of top reason why open source projects disappear or are never created.

The title is kinda unclear for someone non-English/US, for me office hours only means the actual hours when things are worked on (rather than any kind of availability time). So skimming the title it quickly I read it as "Open source projects should run on office hours" since my mind filled that in, kinda implied that someone in another part of the world should adjust their life hours to contribute to OSS. (Yes after…

The difference in usage is not localized English: it's cultural student/academic vs. employed.

To a student with no professional experience, "office hours" are posted times when a professor is available to further mentor and guide a student. "office hours" are designated times outside of the scheduled class times and professors are generally required to provide them so others can benefit.

To a professional and others with white-collar jobs, "office hours" are hours are times when an employee must be seen by a manager to be considered working. Times outside of the scheduled work times are called "outside of office hours" and employees are generally expected to provides them so others can benefit.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#154

Post by simonw »

loosescrews wrote: post #130

I used to work on a reasonably sized open source project (10k+ stars on GitHub). We held approximately monthly office hours on Zoom. Very few people ever came to them. I think the average was less than one person. And no, I don't think the issue was that no one had any questions. We got plenty of questions via Gitter chat, mailing lists and GitHub issues. We advertised the office hours on the same Gitter chat and mai…

Maybe the big difference here is getting people to book slots?

Booking slots helps emphasize that this us a one-on-one opportunity for a conversation - not a situation where you might feel awkward that there are several others on the chat who already know each other.

It also sets up a small obligation that you'll actually show up, since if you reserved a slot it's rude to cancel at short notice.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#155

Post by TulliusCicero »

GordonS wrote: post #121
whizzter wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is kinda unclear for someone non-English/US, for me office hours only means the actual hours when things are worked on (rather than any kind of availability time). So skimming the title it quickly I read it as "Open source projects should run on office hours" since my mind filled that in, kinda implied that someone in another part of the world should adjust their life hours to contribute to OSS. (Yes after…

I am a native speaker (well, Scottish, so some may disagree ;), and I didn't get the title either. Maybe it's an American thing, by "office hours" to me means 9-5, local time - you know, the kind of hours that people typically work in an office.

In American English it can mean that too. The meaning of "certain hours where you work" and "certain hours where you have an 'open office'" overlap enough to be confusing, yes.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#156

Post by mysterydip »

matkoniecz wrote: post #90

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

Depending on license, aren't you obligated to provide a repo if you're using the code (ie GPL)? Or do I misunderstand it?

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#157

Post by simonw »

excolleague wrote: post #124

It is unfair to propose this as a general idea when you're literally paid by a company to do whatever you want to do and work on your side projects on company time. Not all open source maintainers are this lucky (or reached such a great level of success such as Simon in this case). Most open source maintainers have real product obligations inside their companies and either have little company time for this or have to…

Again I feel like the "should" in my title is misleading here.

"I’d like to encourage more open source project maintainers to consider doing something similar."

If you consider it and decide that it's not for you that's absolutely fine!

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#158

Post by zwegner »

dxdm wrote: post #84
zwegner wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do any of the comments actually make that conclusion? The other comment you replied to is the only one I saw that even comes close, but it mentions "if you can offer office hours..." so the poster clearly knew the "office hours" idiom.

I came into the comments section to see what this article is all about and whether I want to read it, thinking it would be about working on open source projects only 9 am to 5 pm. So this comment helped me a lot, and I'm voting it up so that it may stay on top.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I definitely think it's helpful to explain the idiom for those not familiar. I just found the description "a lot of the comments..." rather weird when I didn't see any.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#159

Post by simonw »

mkl95 wrote: post #102

Github / Gitlab / etc. are not free software universities where maintainers are professors enjoying their tenure. In my opinion, if you don't pay a maintainer for their time you are not entitled to it.

This isn't a one-sided exchange: I'm getting just as much, if not more value out of each conversation.

If I wasn't then I wouldn't be doing this (or suggesting it to others).

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#160

Post by taberiand »

simonw wrote: post #148
matkoniecz wrote: post #90

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

The curse of snappy titles. A clearer version of my message is in the third paragraph: "I’d like to encourage more open source project maintainers to consider doing something similar."

I just mentally prefix titles like this with [The author's opinion is that...]
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