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Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

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Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#151

Post by onethought »

walrus01 wrote: post #7

I truly don't understand, from a security and privacy perspective, why would anyone outside of China would voluntarily choose to run closed-source software from a company that's subject to domestic laws and regulations in China. The MSS is no joke. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=china+mss... This is the same reason that Zoom is banned at my workplace and many other partner companies. You've actual…

But in context:

- Australia has similar laws.

- Snowden releases showed the US don’t even ask, they just take it.

So it’s not like there is a huge amount of difference around the world.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#152

Post by f6v »

systemvoltage wrote: post #114
lucideer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be the same reason anyone outside of the US would voluntarily choose to run close-source software from a company that's subject to domestic laws and regulations in the US? The ECPA is no joke.

Responses like this are so predictable and shed no further light or provide no new insight. They're unproductive and flame-war prone. I downvoted your comment.

Why is it unproductive? Parent makes a point that non-US consumers don't care whether it's a US or Chinese product. Both nations have access to domestic company's data.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#153

Post by xtracto »

0xy wrote: post #99
MisterTea wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same could be said for countries outside of the USA buying US tech equipment.

That's not true, because US companies are allowed to export E2E technology in products. Chinese companies are not given the same leeway. All Chinese messenger clients are not encrypted and are fully surveilled. That is not true for US messenger clients.

IIRC American companies (specially service companies, but surely also hardware companies) can be forced to introduce backdoors and other spying mechanisms and then force them not to disclose such a thing (i.e. Lavabit, Groklaw, Room 641 and equivalent Google and Facebook programms).

For us that don't live in the US or China, it is just a matter of choosing between two evils. And in being pragmatics, the 90% of the population outside of China and the US does not give a damn if the US or China are spying in their mundane conversations.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#154

Post by walrus01 »

ampdepolymerase wrote: post #147
walrus01 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a purely pragmatic point of view: If you're European...? Consider that your country is likely either already a five eyes member, or a "five eyes plus" member with a historical record going back 45+ years of intelligence/law enforcement data sharing between the various NATO governments' intelligence agencies. And take a risk calculation, based on what you're doing in your life, if all your metadata and traffic wa…

Considering the current target of deplatforming is the far-right, and given Germany's history specifically, they have a lot of reasons not to trust local hardware and software. The same goes for the Le Pen crowd in France, a somewhat adversarial government on the other side of the globe is often less risky than the status quo across the pond allied to the current French establishment.

I was wondering how long it would take until we got to the argument of "oh no, won't somebody please think of the unfortunate oppressed fascists! it's a good thing that xiaomi has phones and software for them, because their own local european government is against them".

The paradox of tolerance and an open society is that if you allow actual fascism to flourish (and Le Pen is absolutely a fascist, in my opinion), you risk ending up with something much worse in the long run.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#155

Post by checkyoursudo »

walrus01 wrote: post #21
lucideer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be the same reason anyone outside of the US would voluntarily choose to run close-source software from a company that's subject to domestic laws and regulations in the US? The ECPA is no joke.

I'm sure that a Chinese citizen would see the NSA as an equal or greater threat. The difference from my perspective is that as a citizen of a NATO country with a functioning democracy, I'm highly unlikely to be rounded up by my government and put in a prison or concentration camp for expressing my political opinions or religion. You only need to look at the past several years of news from Hong Kong and the Uyghur/Xin…

*Insert joke: [internet home network]

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#156

Post by guerrilla »

Decker87 wrote: post #18
EvilEy3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does Google have to do with Xiaomi spyware? Or Google being spyware somehow makes Xiaomi spyware less shitty?

I think it comes down to which companies and governments are on the other end. I'm far from trusting the US government, but I trust the Chinese government even less.

I'm sure you have your reasons but for me I feel like I have nothing to worry about from China living permanently outside of their jurisdiction.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#157

Post by matkoniecz »

walrus01 wrote: post #7

I truly don't understand, from a security and privacy perspective, why would anyone outside of China would voluntarily choose to run closed-source software from a company that's subject to domestic laws and regulations in China. The MSS is no joke. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=china+mss... This is the same reason that Zoom is banned at my workplace and many other partner companies. You've actual…

I am using Xiaomi phone for roughly the same reasons as I am using Gmail.

I dislike results of either, replacement of both is on my oversized TODO list - and was there since at least two years.

I dislike that USA government, China government and God knows who else has full (partial?) copy of whatever I ever typed on my phone but I did nothing beyond selecting Android Zero, declining "send all what I typed to Google" and declining gloud sync.

(I am already spending plenty of time on badgering local government about green spaces and bicycle infrastructure, massive amount of time on OpenStreetMap - and my time is limited)

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#158

Post by ampdepolymerase »

walrus01 wrote: post #154
ampdepolymerase wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the current target of deplatforming is the far-right, and given Germany's history specifically, they have a lot of reasons not to trust local hardware and software. The same goes for the Le Pen crowd in France, a somewhat adversarial government on the other side of the globe is often less risky than the status quo across the pond allied to the current French establishment.

I was wondering how long it would take until we got to the argument of "oh no, won't somebody please think of the unfortunate oppressed fascists! it's a good thing that xiaomi has phones and software for them, because their own local european government is against them". The paradox of tolerance and an open society is that if you allow actual fascism to flourish (and Le Pen is absolutely a fascist, in my opinion), yo…

That's not a very valid argument in a thread about information security.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#159

Post by matkoniecz »

La1n wrote: post #25
walrus01 wrote: post #7

I truly don't understand, from a security and privacy perspective, why would anyone outside of China would voluntarily choose to run closed-source software from a company that's subject to domestic laws and regulations in China. The MSS is no joke. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=china+mss... This is the same reason that Zoom is banned at my workplace and many other partner companies. You've actual…

I agree with your statement, but I'd like to get it a bit further. Why run any closed-sourced software from (or have servers in) countries that can request you data without a fair trial (e.g. secret courts). I feel just as uncomfortable about national security letters and the NSA/CIA as the MSS, this from someone who is not living in China or the US. I do think this shows the perks of open source software and being a…

> Why

Because it is much easier. I am already spending plenty of time on badgering local government about green spaces and bicycle infrastructure, massive amount of time on OpenStreetMap - and my time is limited.

I have no time to learn how to and run and maintain my own mail server.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#160

Post by cle »

f6v wrote: post #149
walrus01 wrote: post #7

I truly don't understand, from a security and privacy perspective, why would anyone outside of China would voluntarily choose to run closed-source software from a company that's subject to domestic laws and regulations in China. The MSS is no joke. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=china+mss... This is the same reason that Zoom is banned at my workplace and many other partner companies. You've actual…

> why would anyone outside of China would voluntarily choose to run closed-source software from a company that's subject to domestic laws and regulations in China Because outside US it doesn't really matter whether it's Chinese or American company that has your data.

It is critically important depending on your country's relationship with either country.
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