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Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

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Re: Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

#151

Post by _qulr »

qubex wrote: post #137
_qulr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So long as companies deal with errors reasonably it's all good. We all eagerly await this utopia. Or maybe expecting that is silly, given the many years of empirical evidence?

There’s plenty of counterexamples one who might wish to dismiss the idea that technology can reasonably manage things, but all things considered, given the number of _potential_ instance of mishap that do not regularly occur any the relatively minor consequences of the mishaps that do occur, I’d conclude that on the whole arguing the original poster’s position is not inherently ‘_silly_’.

> There’s plenty of counterexamples one who might wish to dismiss the idea that technology can reasonably manage things

Are there? How many historical precedents are there for "curation" at the scale of today's tech giants: Facebook, Twitter, Google, Apple App Store, Amazon.com? IMO none of them do it well, or even reasonably.

> given the number of _potential_ instance of mishap that do not regularly occur

We only hear about the "notable" cases. Every day, people are accidentally or intentionally banned by Twitter or one of the other tech giants, and nobody ever hears about it, because these people are not famous and have nobody else to speak for them and raise a public fuss.

> any the relatively minor consequences of the mishaps that do occur

Regardless of one's opinion on the matter, you can hardly call the banning of the POTUS, for example, from the world's largest and most important social networks as a "relatively minor consequence". This is very consequential. You may think the consequences are good, or you may think they're bad, but it's consequential.

If these "mishaps" are not consequential, why are we all here talking about them?

Re: Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

#152

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

somehnrdr14726 wrote: post #63
keiferski wrote: post #12

Why does it matter if the flagging is automatic? Does that somehow make it more acceptable? The popularity of this view makes me wish more people read Kafka. A future tyranny might end up not being Orwell's 1984 or Huxley's Brave New World, but a kafkesque nightmare where people are lost in a world of AI giving out absurd punishments. [1] Kafka's book The Castle [2] is essentially about this, although I think his aph…

One difference is that Twitter, Facebook, Google, are not governments and have no real authority over you. They only have the power you give them by choosing to stay in their ecosystem. Therefore it's a strain to refer to them as officials. If you're worried about them _becoming_ officials, then act now. Leave these platforms and convince others to do the same.

> One difference is that ... Google ... are not governments and have no real authority over you.

Legally-required quarantine-checking apps or contact-tracing apps in some countries have only been made available through the Apple and Google Play stores. The Android apps often require Google Play Services, which require a Google account.

The same will likely be true of the vaccination-certificate apps that are being planned in some countries (countries intend to allow you to generate limited-time QR codes, not present a permanent paper certificate).

Consequently, staying on the good side of supposedly private platforms is increasingly necessary to be an ordinary, law-abiding citizen.

Re: Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

#153

Post by scbrg »

onion2k wrote: post #95
keiferski wrote: post #12

Why does it matter if the flagging is automatic? Does that somehow make it more acceptable? The popularity of this view makes me wish more people read Kafka. A future tyranny might end up not being Orwell's 1984 or Huxley's Brave New World, but a kafkesque nightmare where people are lost in a world of AI giving out absurd punishments. [1] Kafka's book The Castle [2] is essentially about this, although I think his aph…

Why does it matter if the flagging is automatic? Does that somehow make it more acceptable? The problem is very simple. Unless social media companies either stop moderating content, which will kill their profits because advertisers will run away, or pay people to moderate everything, which will kill their profit because it'd be wildly expensive, they'll continue to do the half-assed version of moderating they do now…

> Computers and people don't need to operate perfectly. Expecting that is silly. So long as companies deal with errors reasonably it's all good.

That depends a lot on the lead time for dealing with the errors, and the magnitude of the negative impact the error has.

The lead time for Google dealing with their errors seems to average just below infinity. Twitter, admittedly, is quite a bit better.

Re: Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

#154

Post by sandworm101 »

Retric wrote: post #147
sandworm101 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> stop moderating content, which will kill their profits because advertisers will run away, One common trend for decades has been that "conservative" advertisers quickly acquiesce once they see that their customers do not share such values. Once upon a time major brands wouldn't go anywhere near sexualized content. Now coke/pepsi/ford will pay millions to get their into a Miley Cyrus video. Once upon a time major br…

Sure, 1922 Coke advertising used women in a swimsuit, that’s about as sexualized as a Miley Cyrus video relative to the time period. If anything their very consistent in targeting various segments over time. That said, US social norms get more and less restrictive over time. Dueling for example used to be perfectly legal as was harsh physical punishment for children. What we think of as progress is arguably just incr…

>> 1922 Coke advertising used women in a swimsuit

There was far more sexualized content available in the 20s. A girl in a 20s-style 'swimming costume' was the the advertiser acceptable limit at the time for mass media. A Miley Cyrus video would be the sort of content available at 1920s peep shows in bad neighborhoods, content from which advertisers then stay far away. Today they readily endorse it.

Re: Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

#155

Post by nashashmi »

codetrotter wrote: post #4

I think being allowed to die on your own terms is a right that every human should have. And I think assisted suicide is a good thing. But I don’t understand why Twitter would block the Bishop for saying what he said. And the reason they gave, that it “promotes self harm”.. that’s straight up Kafkaesque.

I feel like the words of the bishop could be perceive as encouraging suicide when framed in that context. As it was framed by the algorithm.

The human reviewers just took that same context not knowing the politics of assisted suicide.

Re: Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

#156

Post by _qulr »

koonsolo wrote: post #144
pgrote wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Alright, let's say you get appointed at Twitter to clean up this mess. Announce a sale of intellectual and physical assets and close down. I would realize the company is a negative drain on society.

So basically some other platform will take over?

No, break up all the tech giants, and prevent monopolistic platforms from ever arising.

A platform so gigantic that it's impossible for humans to intelligently manage it should simply not exist.

Re: Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

#157

Post by nark1337 »

flerchin wrote: post #138
mensetmanusman wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assume you are right, the way it is being implemented is by threatening doctors to pull the trigger. Humans are too stupid to implement this without horrifying consequences. In the Netherlands a ‘hilarious’ scene occurred when a doctor showed up and killed a patient who was screaming not wanting to die in front of their family. Apparently the patient was not in a mental state to decide not to die after previously bei…

Link or GTFO

I was interested as well so went looking. He is probably referencing this. It was the first article I could find on it. You have to read below the fold to get a decent sense of what happened. A key paragraph is included below. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49660525

"After being diagnosed with Alzheimer's four years before she died, the patient wrote a statement saying that she wanted to be euthanized before entering a care home - but that she wanted to decide when the time was right.

Before she was taken into care, a doctor decided that assisted suicide should be administered based on her prior statement. This was confirmed by two separate doctors independently and a date was set.

When the day came to end the woman's life, a sedative was put in her coffee and she lost consciousness.

But the woman then woke up and had to be held down by her daughter and husband while the process was finished."

Re: Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

#158

Post by jtdev »

keiferski wrote: post #12

Why does it matter if the flagging is automatic? Does that somehow make it more acceptable? The popularity of this view makes me wish more people read Kafka. A future tyranny might end up not being Orwell's 1984 or Huxley's Brave New World, but a kafkesque nightmare where people are lost in a world of AI giving out absurd punishments. [1] Kafka's book The Castle [2] is essentially about this, although I think his aph…

It allows those responsible for these events to feign lack of agency. The Third Reich was enabled by convincing people that they had no agency and demanded that they adhere to the will of the bureaucracy - even when that meant genocide. Not saying that Twitter's censorship activities are comparable in terms of outcome, but rather that the same underlying mindset is at play here... of course the big tech censorship is likely to result in much more troubling outcomes in the future.

Re: Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

#159

Post by Barrin92 »

jkingsbery wrote: post #64

It's a half-joke in Catholic media circles that making comments like this is likely to receive some kind of punishment on social media... I say "half-joke" because it happens extremely frequently and those writers in that world all know it happens and try to laugh about it. As someone in the tech world, I spend most of my time interacting with more "liberal" people. I don't hear about this happening with any frequenc…

>As someone in the tech world, I spend most of my time interacting with more "liberal" people. I don't hear about this happening with any frequency, accidentally or otherwise, to those on the left

I mean it's kind of tautological to say that you don't hear a lot about censorship of left-wing opinion if you're situated in a left-wing social environment. For a long time I worked in a very conservative community as a very left-wing person and if I had spoken my mind I could have probably packed my bags. Try having an outspoken atheist debate in a very culturally conservative community. I went to a catholic private school as a kid and if I had actually said what I thought about religion I probably would have gotten hit with a ruler or something.

Which obviously isn't to say that you're not right in principle, obviously open debate is good and all, but what you're describing isn't just occurring in 'liberal circles'. People always love to promote diversity of thought when they happen to be in a minority position.

Re: Twitter locks out Irish Bishop after he criticized euthanasia

#160

Post by bonniemuffin »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #107
christophilus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> advocating against it can also be considered advocating for suicide In the same way that advocating against guns can be considered advocating for switchblades.

Advocating for euthanasia is advocating for the government to force doctors to take someone’s life even against the doctor’s will. It’s an interesting form of violence.

Can you give an example of a location where euthanasia is mandatory for doctors to perform, if the doctor doesn't want to perform that service?
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