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An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

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Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#151

Post by sneak »

nradov wrote: post #105
sneak wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the world would be better off if people simply refused the initial "Go here" order from someone who cares nothing for their own life, or the lives of those "there". War cannot be waged without soldiers, and no one is born a soldier. This requires the cultural de-glorification of soldering-as-profession. Millions of tax dollars are spent on advertising to ensuring it remains, and many companies are complicit i…

The US has had a volunteer military for decades. People who would refuse to fight simply never volunteer in the first place. Boycotting companies for extending a few minor courtesies to the troops is ridiculous and ineffective. If you want to make a difference then get active in politics.

> Boycotting companies for extending a few minor courtesies to the troops is ridiculous and ineffective.

I don't think freedom of association is ridiculous. I'm curious why you do.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#152

Post by rjsw »

sanguy wrote: post #106
rjsw wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in 2006 china managed to tail a US aircraft carrier and emerge in torpedo range with a Song 039 type submarine, a generation behind the US, which was previously thought incapable of such an operation. The alternative version of that story is that the Carrier Group commander was quietly commended for not giving away how far out they detected the submarine.

The extended alternate version is that the SSN Jimmy Carter had been ghosting the Song 039 for > days.

I thought that every carrier group had at least one SSN, using the Jimmy Carter for this kind of thing seems strange.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#154

Post by bennyelv »

pjc50 wrote: post #127
TimTheTinker wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, and agreed with that — organizations that transcend country boundaries are great, as long as they’re not vested with political power. Perhaps the OP was talking about sports teams in particular? Forming sports teams based on geographic area fits well, and gives people someone to root for without alienating other groups for what would amount to wrongfully discriminatory reasons in other contexts. But if geogra…

Given the way Premier League works, it's not really geographic any more. "Arsenal" is owned by an American, plays in a stadium named after the airline of the UAE, recruits its team from all over the world, and is named after the Royal arsenal that no longer exists. Names and history are important. That's why there has been such a fight over renaming US teams with racist names.

I don't think it's a simple as that, and you have to separate the ownership of the club and the makeup of the team from who makes up the bulk of the fans.

The fans don't particularly care that it's owned by an american and sponsored by a UAE airline, because what matters is the coming together of the fans behind a common cause.

The fans do typically come from the area around the stadium in North London.

When you get just a little bit further down the league it's still very much a geographical thing because the teams are less well known and less successful, so are less likely to attract people who want to support "the best team". For example, Southampton FC fans are pretty much exclusively from Southampton.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#155

Post by jariel »

INTPenis wrote: post #149
crusty wrote: post #118

One aspect of this that lends itself to the type of "easy" reconciliation that makes us think avoiding war shouldn't be so hard, is that neither party here actually had a sustained interest in the other. Serbia didn't have years, let alone decades or centuries, of grievance against the USA, and vis versa. The same with the US and Vietnam, or Japan, or Germany, or just about every other war the US has gotten involved…

Nail on head. I have a cousin in Croatia who is very progressive and an artist. He's by far my favorite family member. But he lived in Osijek during yugoslavia and during the war and his animosity for serbs runs surprisingly deep. While he doesn't dwell on it or let it consume him, if you ask then he will reveal that he still resents them for bullying and war crimes over 25 years later. And in my view that was a rela…

"And in my view that was a relatively mild conflict compared to others like Israel and Palestine for example."

Serbs and Croats were massacring each other, mass rape, torture, executions, quasi-genocide. It's far worse than anything in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict at least on that level.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#156

Post by INTPenis »

jariel wrote: post #155
INTPenis wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nail on head. I have a cousin in Croatia who is very progressive and an artist. He's by far my favorite family member. But he lived in Osijek during yugoslavia and during the war and his animosity for serbs runs surprisingly deep. While he doesn't dwell on it or let it consume him, if you ask then he will reveal that he still resents them for bullying and war crimes over 25 years later. And in my view that was a rela…

"And in my view that was a relatively mild conflict compared to others like Israel and Palestine for example." Serbs and Croats were massacring each other, mass rape, torture, executions, quasi-genocide. It's far worse than anything in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict at least on that level.

You sound like you're from there. Because you're clearly over exaggerating.

It's been pretty quiet down there for at least 20 years. You can literally walk over the border near Vukovar in some places without even seeing a border guard.

In Palestine people have a giant wall and are forced to go through humiliating border checks just to get to work. And it's been going on for longer than I've been alive.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#157

Post by jki275 »

lostlogin wrote: post #132
jki275 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet they get to vote.

Yes, but younger kids get recruited. The voting age in the US is 18 as far as I can tell, and the US military recruits 17 year olds. https://www.usa.gov/voter-registration-age-requirements

As I addressed in my comment above. 17 year olds are allowed to sign up with their parent's consent, but are not allowed to deploy outside the US or take part in any hostilities.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#158

Post by sanguy »

rjsw wrote: post #152
sanguy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extended alternate version is that the SSN Jimmy Carter had been ghosting the Song 039 for > days.

I thought that every carrier group had at least one SSN, using the Jimmy Carter for this kind of thing seems strange.

Not strange considering where and what the Jimmy is used for.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#159

Post by legitster »

I'm reminded of something C.S Lewis shared:

“I have often thought to myself how it would have been if, when I served in the first World War, I and some young German had killed each other simultaneously and found ourselves together a moment after death. I cannot imagine that either of us would have felt any resentment or even any embarrassment. I think we might have laughed over it"

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#160

Post by 1024core »

INTPenis wrote: post #149
crusty wrote: post #118

One aspect of this that lends itself to the type of "easy" reconciliation that makes us think avoiding war shouldn't be so hard, is that neither party here actually had a sustained interest in the other. Serbia didn't have years, let alone decades or centuries, of grievance against the USA, and vis versa. The same with the US and Vietnam, or Japan, or Germany, or just about every other war the US has gotten involved…

Nail on head. I have a cousin in Croatia who is very progressive and an artist. He's by far my favorite family member. But he lived in Osijek during yugoslavia and during the war and his animosity for serbs runs surprisingly deep. While he doesn't dwell on it or let it consume him, if you ask then he will reveal that he still resents them for bullying and war crimes over 25 years later. And in my view that was a rela…

My Croatian friends still complain that Serb girls don't give them the time of day. I guess things aren't fully resolved yet.
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