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TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

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Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#151
> The United Kingdom is somewhat unique in the world for requiring those households which view broadcast television to purchase a licence for the privilege.

This is actually pretty common and almost everywhere in Europe. I will never stop being surprised by how little my fellow British people know about other countries.

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#152
post #113
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A German explained to me once that the forced payment by non-watchers is justified as it benefits society as a whole. Do they really believe these things? This is the Kool-Aid you have to drink as a society, in order not to go crazy when you pay for things you never use and benefit from. If you ever move out, make sure to let them know, otherwise they will keep hunting you for ever.

I firmly believe this, especially in recent times. Those mandatory fees finance the "public" radio and TV stations, which have a set budget and can freely operate within the budget. They are not depending on advertisement revenue (they have a limited amount of that too) and are not working to create a profit. As a consequence, they do have a certain degree of independence and overall can afford into a lot of good qua…

In my personal experience public funded TV stations are just a propaganda machine for the current ruling party.

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#153
post #80
post #38

> The United Kingdom is somewhat unique in the world for requiring those households which view broadcast television to purchase a licence for the privilege. I know at least three countries (Germany, Austria and Switzerland) which do the same (edit: according the Wikipedia [0], such a fee exists in basically every European country, Japan, Israel, South Korea and Namibia). In Germany, the situation changed a few years…

> In Germany, the situation changed a few years ago, every household has to pay now, even if they don't own a television or radio. This was literally the first piece of mail I got when I moved to Germany: a letter demanding I pay for the TV networks I don't watch. I didn't even own a TV by that point, nor would have understood much of what was being said! A German explained to me once that the forced payment by non-w…

At that point, why don’t they just have the government fund the television networks from tax revenue rather than effectively levying a poll tax earmarked for broadcasters?

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#154
post #38

> The United Kingdom is somewhat unique in the world for requiring those households which view broadcast television to purchase a licence for the privilege. I know at least three countries (Germany, Austria and Switzerland) which do the same (edit: according the Wikipedia [0], such a fee exists in basically every European country, Japan, Israel, South Korea and Namibia). In Germany, the situation changed a few years…

Here in Finland they just moved the payment into taxes in 2013.

Basically 2.5% starting from income after 14000€ and maxes out at 163€ collected.

https://www.vero.fi/en/About-us/newsroom/visual_aids_for_pre...

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#155
In Germany, the GEZ (Gebühreneinzugszentrale, which roughly translates as "subscription fee collection agency") also had some of these infamous vans with parabolic dishes on them that allegedly could detect TVs in homes or offices. I never believed this but found it funny to which lengths they would go to get people to pay the public subscription fees for their TVs.

Until the mid 2000's they also hired free agents that were paid a commission for every "black sheep" they got to register. Of course these people regularly overstepped their mandate and found creative ways to intrude people's homes, some would e.g. pose as TV technicians and ask if they could have a look at the cable as the neighbors reported some problems, only to reveal themselves as the GEZ guy once they were inside and saw the unregistered TV set. Of course all of that was illegal, and in 2007 (I think) the system was finally changed so that a given household would pay a fixed fee instead of a fee that depended on the number of receiving devices they had, which made using the "collection mafia" unnecessary. Still, the GEZ is by far the most hated agency in Germany and the subscription fees (around 18.5 € / month) are among the most hated taxes people pay. Some people go as far as voting for an ultra right-wing party (AfD) only because they promise to do away with this fee should they come into power. Personally I don't mind paying for it, though I'd prefer to be able to pay more selectively for services I use. Then again, less than 20 € / month in additional tax for a single household isn't anything to really get worked up over.

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not listened to the radio in 10+ years - my audio consumption is all from Podcasts, which IMHO blows any radio out of the water. It's not live but I don't need it to be.

I think the key benefit of a narrow selection of live programming is the idea that a lot of people listen to the same things. The discussions that follow a program, between people who watched or listened to it (which could be a significant chunk of your friends or coworkers) is to me at least as important as the content itself. With podcasts and streaming I often find the discussion starts and ends with "yes I listen…

Yes that's a good point. Although I have met people who have listened to the same podcasts as me, so it does happen.

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#157
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The trick is to watch the smaller "third programmes" or the programmes with special focus, not the big two (ARD and ZDF). To be fair, The Big One is actually just all "third programmes" with some additional programming such as news.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Take a look at the first column of https://www.tvinfo.de/tv-programm/ard Pretty much nothing in there is also shown at any third programme. The programmes are almost completely distinct. Evening news are actually the one part where the third programmes show the same as the ARD.

I am talking about the fact that the ARD itself is the collective group of all regional broadcasters (look up the name) and any programme is produced either by one of the regional broadcasters or by the shared production company Degeto. And of course is also shown in the "thirds". Take "Rote Rosen" (with questionable quality) and you will see it is also shown on rbb, hr, NDR and MDR.

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#158
post #113
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A German explained to me once that the forced payment by non-watchers is justified as it benefits society as a whole. Do they really believe these things? This is the Kool-Aid you have to drink as a society, in order not to go crazy when you pay for things you never use and benefit from. If you ever move out, make sure to let them know, otherwise they will keep hunting you for ever.

I firmly believe this, especially in recent times. Those mandatory fees finance the "public" radio and TV stations, which have a set budget and can freely operate within the budget. They are not depending on advertisement revenue (they have a limited amount of that too) and are not working to create a profit. As a consequence, they do have a certain degree of independence and overall can afford into a lot of good qua…

If a state wants to fund public radio and TV stations, it doesn't need to do it through a mandatory, regardless of use flat fee. I would argue that that is the worse possible way to do it:

* Increased bureaucracy (why not add a 0.1% to an existing tax?)

* Regressive taxation (you pay the same amount regardless of your income; if you used the income tax, you would distribute it more fairly)

* No market shaping (you could instead fund it with a tax on, say, TV ads for high-calories sodas, or whatever as a society you decide should not be forbidden but discouraged)

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#159

Why not just tax TV sales? That's much easier to enforce, and has ultimately almost the same effect.

In an era where we buy things on Amazon, which is famous for not paying all the due taxes, how do you plan to enforce this? Also, I live 5km from the german border, I will just buy my TV there.

What was/is? existing is that every for every TV sales, you had to give your name to the shop, which would transmit it to the taxman.

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#160
post #83
post #39

The situation was (is) the same in Germany: There is a fee of about 20EUR/month per household in order to fund the public service broadcasting. And in the last century, these "TV detector vans" also have been a thing in Germany. While the detecting technology can work in theory, it will perform poorly in practice. Think of any dense settling, such as apartment blocks. It will be kind of impossible to determine the ex…

They had fee collectors in Germany in the 90s. When I was at university it was common knowledge that you do not have to let them in if they come to your home. A friend's roommate let them in anyways, which cost him 400 DM (that would now be about 500€).

I assume the 500 Euro includes inflation, doesn't it? Oherwise, I have to agree, back the day you didn't have to let these guys in. You didn't, you were save. Just another reason why the switched to a household fee. Regarding that so, not having a TV cable connection at our home, we do watch German public TV through their apps for Fire TV, so not oaying the fee and still wtching would be kind of using "alternative" streaming services, which I did too before Amazon prime and Netflix came about.
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