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Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

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Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#151
post #60

> I woke up this morning with my inbox lit up by netizens outraged at me for having allowed the WireGuard Project to produce such terribly subpar and dysfunctional software for the Mac. That was a weird way to wake up on Christmas, considering how much I really do care about delivering polished software. The response is much nicer than deserved. I would not have blamed him for a less friendly reaction.

In that situation I’d take the emails in a “welcome to my hell” frame of mind instead of a “why are they pissed at me”.

It’s also true of much enterprise software - it’s often as good as the developers could make it given the constraints they were working with.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#152
post #23

Incredible that people are so wired and ready to be outraged that they'd send off angry emails on christmas eve after reading someone else's problems with a piece of software.

+1, really can't understand that. If I want to rant about something, perhaps I'll post it on blogs or forums, I couldn't imagine that harassing the author with angry mails is also an option...

I think a good part of it is that you can be annoyed by a piece of software and not be able to articulate it beyond “it sucks” - and then you find someone who wrote a detailed article that explains all your pain perfectly.

And even though it was Christmas Eve you send it off partially in disgust and partially in a “maybe this explanation makes it clear”.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#153
post #47

First off, what a level-headed friendly response from a developer who is clearly frustrated by Apple's bugs and policies. As someone who has had to support commercial software this is not easy to do consistently. Second, this has significantly tempered my lusting over the new M1 macs. I think I can be content with my ThinkPad's running Linux.

Yeah, I'm wondering if my next work computer will be something different after almost 20 years of working on NeXT/Mac OS X/MacOS because I'm not sure general development will continue to be viable on the M1s. Spent another weekend moving my wife over to a new Windows machine ... not interested in that environment.

I'm in the very fortunate position of being able to afford the luxury of running multiple laptops at the same time, and being relatively price-insensitive. I've supported and recommended Apple as long as I can, but they're repeating their core strategic mistakes when they were riding high in the Apple // era, and I've been to that rodeo before. This time, I'm getting off the bull before it gores me. Last time, I clung on like a limpet long past the time it made sense, and I'll pass that mantle to the younger generations who have the time and energy budgets to do so.

Apple's core strategic weakness is being the dominant market participant for too long. It is as if hardwired into their corporate cultural DNA is the absolute need to be the underdog. Once they dominate for awhile, they start seeking out easy answers, and it takes strong leadership that demands finesse, class and taste in solutions to steer them past the answers within their immediate grasp, and uncomfortably reach for the ones that pleasingly engage customers. This starts with their relationships with partners, then developers, then customers, then it corrupts their products, in roughly that order within their overall ecosystem. We have another decade or two to go before it gets that bad, if it gets that bad (I really hope I'm wrong, their corporate culture otherwise from a customer perspective is highly desirable).

I'm getting out while the getting is still good and migration paths are not quite so painful. Part of this is because the raw hardware capabilities of my dual-track alternative (Dell Precision 5500 fully tricked-out) are a quantum leap over Apple's offerings. I have simultaneously put up with non-Apple trackpads, keyboards and OS's on Wintel laptops I simultaneously carry (hazard of consulting) while my main daily driver is an Apple, so those don't faze me.

There was a brief, glorious period in the 00's when Apple locked in users by being a superlative superset of delighting capabilities above Wintel gear that compelled users like me to share with those who asked me about my quirky non-enterprise choice in the enterprise consulting space, "I use a Mac because it is a very good mobile Unix slab", and they came away impressed and agreeing with the choice, "if only we had the money". As a consultant, I got a pass for having the money to make that choice. Mac laptops for a brief 2-3 years had the densest memory, mass storage and top-of-the-line mobile chipsets, making many light "server-like" tasks upon it feasible. I heavily leveraged those capabilities to run rings around other consultants, able to deliver results in a fraction of the time because while they were requisitioning servers, I was already coding, debugging and running tests. Haven't had that experience since.

I'm hoping I can catch some of that fire again with a Lintel setup. The general lack of developer infrastructure discipline I see across the board is leading many corporate cloud environments to enshroud themselves with all sorts of cost containment approval procedures, and most of my clients have already lost the agility cloud promised. Better security postures within my clients' sites also makes it increasingly difficult to access my own cloud accounts. So my own development deck once again makes sense for my own specific use case.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#154
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple can't possibly get rid of kernel extensions they are though. It's getting harder and harder to get them loaded (on an M1 Mac, getting an extension loaded will require 4 reboots and a journey through the recovery environment). I'd say that within the next 2-3 macOS releases, kernel extension won't be loaded at all any more and only user-space APIs will be available for third-parties (including drivers). From a…

So essentially, macOS will become ios.

Not quite, given that macOS has userspace replacements for some kernel extension functions and has been gaining more as time goes on.

iOS is far more restricted in this regard — for instance, writing a driver for your USB HID device isn’t possible there, but it is on macOS, and that capability isn’t disappearing. I don’t think iOS has any of the new virtualization APIs added in Big Sur, either.

That said, the userspace APIs need to be made much more robust before kexts are deprecated, and so to me that is what Apple should be pressured to do. Kernel extensions should be a last resort, not the go-to solution, because the reality is that they’re a security nightmare and have been readily abused (remember the mess with Dropbox of all things installing a kext?)

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#155
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's technologically doable, but running MacOS on non-Apple hardware is against the ToS.

Is it? Anyhow, it does not mean that it is illegal, which was the original question. I guess most ToS are not enforceable in practice. The worst that may happen is that you "lose the warranty" of your macOS install and you cannot ask Apple for support. No big deal.

So I'm not an expert, but isn't it still simply pirating software? I mean what's the difference between this and pirating Photoshop for example?

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#156

Couldn’t you just change the url to /about instead of /donations? Seems sort of the thing sketchy sites do to say one thing and link to another. If I want to donate to a project I want to browse the site and learn more about rather than straight to the donation page. Seems like a money grab to take me to the donation page.

> Seems sort of the thing sketchy sites do to say one thing and link to another.

There is no misleading link. It's only a "Donation" button on the About window that opens a hyperlink, similar to this one [0]. How is it supposed to be a money grab? TBH, I don't think anyone ever bother to click it to begin with...

[0] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnhRYTTXMAEW9TX?format=jpg

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#158
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What organization is it, that can't order an employee to use a different OS on a work computer?

Video editors, designers, and sound mixer are a few example professions where users mostly use Apple products. Most companies have designers. Additionally, companies don't choose their whole software stack based on their VPN solution. They would just change a VPN solution if it's incompatible with what's there.

That was 5 years ago.

By now, video editors and sound mixers are heavy windows users, because there's no halfway endurable Apple machine that you can purchase that supports 128GB of RAM and 8+ CPU cores and NVIDIA CUDA. Because like it or not, almost all video editing plugins use CUDA for acceleration.

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/download/Pro-Tool...

The industry standard for movie mixing supports: macOS Catalina (10.15.7), macOS Mojave (10.14.6), and High Sierra (10.13.6).

In other words, they didn't even bother with Big Sur yet.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So essentially, macOS will become ios.

Not quite, given that macOS has userspace replacements for some kernel extension functions and has been gaining more as time goes on. iOS is far more restricted in this regard — for instance, writing a driver for your USB HID device isn’t possible there, but it is on macOS, and that capability isn’t disappearing. I don’t think iOS has any of the new virtualization APIs added in Big Sur, either. That said, the userspa…

> for instance, writing a driver for your USB HID device isn’t possible there

It is possible through the "MFi" (Made for iPod/iPhone) programme: that's how custom iPhone accessories that use the Lightning port work: they get to write their own user-mode driver for the USB port. Ditto for "Classic" Bluetooth devices.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What organization is it, that can't order an employee to use a different OS on a work computer?

When the employee is the CEO who wants to use his iPhone or an owner who wants to use her MacBook, the IT department bends. And yes, the users are smart enough to see there’s an iOS client so you can’t just tell them “it’s not available”.

We're talking about an open source project.

So if bigcorp wants OS X WireGuard support, they should be able to pay handsomely for it.

If they aren't willing to pay, then I believe the project should just avoid offering it, to avoid getting burnt out from unreasonable requests.

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