How neutering dogs became the norm • Hacker News Board

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#151

Post by hn_user82179 » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 5:55 AM UTC

in_cahoots wrote: post #129

jonahrd wrote: post #121

This article glosses over the historical mistreatment of dogs where millions were killed yearly, and then cherry picks and details a bunch of examples of Bad Things happening to dogs nowadays. It ignores all the benefits of neutering just to make a point. Also, my dog is neutered, and is not aggressive at all, EXCEPT towards un-neutered dogs. Where I live it's illegal to bring an un-neutered dog to the dog park, but…

Could this be a nature vs. nurture case? I don’t have much experience with dogs, but is it possible that the people who don’t neuter their dogs raise them differently? In my social circle at least, neutering your dog is the social norm. If you don’t, and then break the law to take your dog to the park, most people would say you’re acting irresponsibly. Perhaps these sort of people aren’t compelled to train their dogs…

Intact dogs (of both genders) can go to obedience or dog sport classes (I'm assuming that's what you mean by socialization classes). It could definitely depend on the facility but I've taken classes across 3 different facilities with intact males and intact females (thankfully not at the same time).

That said, there could be some correlation there where less informed owners who don't train their dogs and don't neuter them. In general though, neutering has been shown (in the same dog) to help curb some unwanted behaviors. Trainers can and will recommend neutering in some cases [0]

[0] For example, Victoria Stillwell is a well-known trainer who recommended neutering this dog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXaGxFzv-GM

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#152

Post by Ma8ee » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 5:57 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #142

projektfu wrote: post #38

As a US veterinarian, I hold a nuanced view of spay/neuter. Nevertheless, I generally recommend it as default for most pet owners, as it goes along with their expectations of what their pet's life will be like. People who elected to leave their dogs intact are often shocked by something down the line. 1. Pyometra. Dogs do not have menopause, but they may stop cycling. When they do they can develop a uterine infection…

My father-in-law had an intact Labrador Retriever show dog who escaped over a high fence and swam across a large river in order to visit a bitch in heat. They found him days later, filthy and with some minor injuries. The instinct to reproduce will drive dogs to do crazy things.

It’s not only dogs. I remember some stupid shit I did as a teenager.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#153

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:02 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #150

denimnerd42 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You link a pitbull lobbying group as defense? There are plenty of pit bull lobbies. Most of them come from no-kill background because pitbulls are the most common dogs in shelters. There is no national register for dog bites. You can see how coronavirus tracking goes to show how much of a feat that would be. All you can do is track evidence in newspapers and in online media. Interview ER docs, plastic surgeons, etc.

Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association Co-occurrence of potentially preventable factors in 256 dog bite–related fatalities in the United States (2000–2009) Objective—To examine potentially preventable factors in human dog bite–related fatalities (DBRFs) on the basis of data from sources that were more complete, verifiable, and accurate than media reports used in previous studies. Design—Prospective ca…

[deleted]

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#154

Post by denimnerd42 » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:08 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #150

denimnerd42 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You link a pitbull lobbying group as defense? There are plenty of pit bull lobbies. Most of them come from no-kill background because pitbulls are the most common dogs in shelters. There is no national register for dog bites. You can see how coronavirus tracking goes to show how much of a feat that would be. All you can do is track evidence in newspapers and in online media. Interview ER docs, plastic surgeons, etc.

Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association Co-occurrence of potentially preventable factors in 256 dog bite–related fatalities in the United States (2000–2009) Objective—To examine potentially preventable factors in human dog bite–related fatalities (DBRFs) on the basis of data from sources that were more complete, verifiable, and accurate than media reports used in previous studies. Design—Prospective ca…

Ok whether dogbites.org is a lunatic or not. I think there is probable evidence that these dogs are not good pets. Whether it is adoption pages stating that there shouldn't be any children, other dogs, or cats in the home. Gofundme for mauled children. Confiscated dogs, etc. Theses are not family dogs. They have been bred to fight and kill just like others have been bred to herd.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#155

Post by michaelmrose » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

denimnerd42 wrote: post #136

michaelmrose wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a terrible source. Please see. https://adbadog.com/truth-behind-dogsbite-org/ Personally I prefer the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Dog Breeders Association to a single biased source that is basically the qanon of breed specific legislation. The only reason that I have slightly more respect for dogsbite is at least dogs actually have teeth whereas the pizza place in f…

You link a pitbull lobbying group as defense? There are plenty of pit bull lobbies. Most of them come from no-kill background because pitbulls are the most common dogs in shelters. There is no national register for dog bites. You can see how coronavirus tracking goes to show how much of a feat that would be. All you can do is track evidence in newspapers and in online media. Interview ER docs, plastic surgeons, etc.

In response to your now deleted comment there are 90 million dogs in the US. I'm guessing you aren't for banning bathtubs despite hundreds dying in them annually.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#156

Post by hn_user82179 » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:13 AM UTC

denimnerd42 wrote: post #135

etempleton wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons “Pit Bulls” are attributed for so many attacks is because it is not a breed and on police reports when it is a mixed breed that looks vaguely like a terrier breed they assign “pitbull” because it is not like they are going to do a DNA test to determine breed. It is also true that many people who want a tough looking “pitbull” are terrible owners who want their dog to attack and to be aggressive as…

On the other hand there are plenty of examples of pitbull dogs killing or mauling the family's cat, dog, child, or grandparent completely randomly with no prior warning. I didn't really know much about pits or have any opinion until one of my buddies adopted one and it killed his two cats with him trying to pry its mouth open. I started to look into the issue after that.

"With no prior warning" is a tough one. Pit Bull Terriers and other bully-type dogs are known to have high prey drives, and you can't really be surprised if one goes after a cat or small dog. I'm pretty tired of both the people who blame the dogs for everything and the people who are trying to convince the world that bully breed dogs are great beginner- or family-friendly pets. Certain dogs have certain traits that you can't train out of them. I love hamsters and rabbits, but I'm not ever going to get one as a pet because my rat terrier has an extremely high prey drive. It's just stupid to put any animal in that situation.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#157

Post by denimnerd42 » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:15 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #155

denimnerd42 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You link a pitbull lobbying group as defense? There are plenty of pit bull lobbies. Most of them come from no-kill background because pitbulls are the most common dogs in shelters. There is no national register for dog bites. You can see how coronavirus tracking goes to show how much of a feat that would be. All you can do is track evidence in newspapers and in online media. Interview ER docs, plastic surgeons, etc.

In response to your now deleted comment there are 90 million dogs in the US. I'm guessing you aren't for banning bathtubs despite hundreds dying in them annually.

No I'm not sure it's worth arguing someone on the internet when there is no good evidence documented either way. I think better reporting should be required. I see what I see and that's good enough for my opinion right now.

The biggest part I don't like is how people are being pushed towards shelters to adopt dogs and pitbulls of unknown origin are the highest percentage of dogs available in those shelters. Whether it's their bred in nature or their nurture. I think a combination of both, but I don't think these shelters should be pushing these dogs onto families. Especially ones that have killed family pets before and are being advertised as "good with children"

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#158

Post by michaelmrose » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:17 AM UTC

denimnerd42 wrote: post #154

michaelmrose wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association Co-occurrence of potentially preventable factors in 256 dog bite–related fatalities in the United States (2000–2009) Objective—To examine potentially preventable factors in human dog bite–related fatalities (DBRFs) on the basis of data from sources that were more complete, verifiable, and accurate than media reports used in previous studies. Design—Prospective ca…

Ok whether dogbites.org is a lunatic or not. I think there is probable evidence that these dogs are not good pets. Whether it is adoption pages stating that there shouldn't be any children, other dogs, or cats in the home. Gofundme for mauled children. Confiscated dogs, etc. Theses are not family dogs. They have been bred to fight and kill just like others have been bred to herd.

The person you now admit is a lunatic was your only source that pit bulls are particularly dangerous compared to ANY large breed. This is to say the level of danger directly and only corresponds to the fact that a large dog can do more damage than a chihuahua. Statistically buying your kid a bike is much more dangerous to their continued survival. Dogs that are raised properly aren't particularly dangerous regardless of breed. Like the bike its a small manageable risk you can virtually negate by not being an idiot and helping your kid not be an idiot.

What YOU want to do is take this decision out of their hands based on dog attack videos on youtube and debunked information from a person you now seem to agree is a lunatic.

I'm going to need to see an actual source for your claims.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#159

Post by michaelmrose » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:20 AM UTC

denimnerd42 wrote: post #157

michaelmrose wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In response to your now deleted comment there are 90 million dogs in the US. I'm guessing you aren't for banning bathtubs despite hundreds dying in them annually.

No I'm not sure it's worth arguing someone on the internet when there is no good evidence documented either way. I think better reporting should be required. I see what I see and that's good enough for my opinion right now. The biggest part I don't like is how people are being pushed towards shelters to adopt dogs and pitbulls of unknown origin are the highest percentage of dogs available in those shelters. Whether i…

Basically you are now saying their isn't enough evidence so we ought to make laws based on your gut. I'm also going to need a source on shelters accepting animals that have killed other family pets and are subsequently advertised as "good with children" because it kind of sounds like something you learned from your facebook news feed.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#160

Post by denimnerd42 » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:21 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #158

denimnerd42 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok whether dogbites.org is a lunatic or not. I think there is probable evidence that these dogs are not good pets. Whether it is adoption pages stating that there shouldn't be any children, other dogs, or cats in the home. Gofundme for mauled children. Confiscated dogs, etc. Theses are not family dogs. They have been bred to fight and kill just like others have been bred to herd.

The person you now admit is a lunatic was your only source that pit bulls are particularly dangerous compared to ANY large breed. This is to say the level of danger directly and only corresponds to the fact that a large dog can do more damage than a chihuahua. Statistically buying your kid a bike is much more dangerous to their continued survival. Dogs that are raised properly aren't particularly dangerous regardless…

I've never used dogs bite as a claim for anything. In fact I find that site unprofessional. You may be thinking of someone else. I have found plenty of primary and secondary sources, both online and in real life, to shape my beliefs. I'm open to any evidence to the contrary but having friends or acquaintances who have fallen into adopting pitbulls only to have had them euthanized or "rehomed" due to issues I am unlikely to change my opinion easily.