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Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

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Re: Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People show up in new area because its better than where they left and decide to vote for the same politicians that screwed up their old area. Happens all the time as logic is hard. or to put it like one of the folks here: "you peed in your pool and moved to ours, don't do that again"

The high cost of living in California has almost nothing to do with liberal politics or whatever you're trying to insinuate.

> The high cost of living in California has almost nothing to do with liberal politics or whatever you’re trying to insinuate.

It has a lot to do with economic success and the wealth produced thereby. The extent that has to do with the distinctive local politics of the state is another argument.

Re: Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was mayor of a small town I would be rolling out fiber like there is no tomorrow and zoning everything to allow for detached units like these [0]. Interests rates are at their lowest and the rise in property value should more than pay for it. [0] https://www.dwell.com/article/prefab-home-office-accessory-d...

You also have to be in reasonable distance to an airport, Trader Joes/Costco/REI/restaurants/breweries/etc other stores the higher income crowds like, and outdoor activities. Bend happened to have all of these. Although Bend's internet offerings are extremely sad, and I'm surprised the political power of the tech crowd hasn't forced municipal fiber to be a thing yet.

For me a bike shop and brewery would be the 'minimum viable amenities'. Even Lakeview has a bike shop. Baker City has both - and the beer is supposed to be pretty good: http://www.barleybrownsbeer.com/ .

I think some people are more comfortable with less of that stuff. I could get by without Costco and REI.

Re: Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

#153

I'm super curious how this will WFH Covid-era will play out for the Bay Area. I think the question I haven't figured out is job mobility. Pre-covid, even if you lost your job here as an engineer, finding another company thats interesting with the right pay isn't too hard which is one of the best appeals of SV. I wonder how this will play out in terms of this dynamic.

I'm curious what it will do to tech salaries as well. Will developers working remotely for SV companies from LCOL areas be compensated the same as those in SV? Will smaller firms elsewhere have to raise salaries to compete with locals taking non-regional salaries?

> Will developers working remotely for SV companies from LCOL areas be compensated the same as those in SV?

No. At larger companies, they already have these types of adjustments and will just be making more of them. For smaller companies, they’ll very quickly start to implement these types of adjustments.

Depending on where you go, the trade-off can still work in your favor, even with a lower salary. But COL calculators aren’t perfect and don’t change as often as the areas can. So you can be in a position where your COL rises but your salary, per the calculator does not.

When I moved to Seattle from NYC, I got a lower salary because of COL differences, even though the real COL is the same (and in some ways, is higher than NYC). Yes, rent in Seattle is going to be lower when directly compared to New York City (so same type of area/amenities/size), but your options are lower too, which can push you towards a higher priced house or apartment than you might choose in New York. I pay a lot more in rent in Seattle than I did in NYC. It’s a nicer place and the equivalent in Williamsburg would be higher, but I’d have more options that were less than what I pay in NYC that still fit my needs and are close to the places I need to be. Food prices and cost of good are the same (sales tax is higher in Seattle and there are fewer food options for delivery). It’s the state income tax that is the differentiator. That’s 10% of my income a year I don’t lose as I did in New York. And that can be significant.

If I left Washington for a place with LCOL, I’d need to calculate my lower salary against the real-world costs of the new place, plus any additional expenses (like owning a car and gas money and maintainable/insurance), and the tax implications of the new place. Going from California to Texas will be a big change tax wise, but going from Washington state to Iowa, which has a 9% state income tax and a LCOL, I’d need to calculate whether that lower salary would be a good enough deal for me to leave. And of course, you have to factor in the cost you personally value the place you live from a culture and opportunity point of view.

I like big cities. Cities have suffered tremendously with COVID because all the things we love about cities have gone away. But I’m still (perhaps stupidly) bullish on cities. I grew up in the suburbs of a major city but haven’t lived outside of a major metropolitan area since I was 18 years old. I have no desire to live in suburbia, even if the housing prices are low and space is plentiful. That just isn’t my thing. So the trade-off to do that would be require a significant increase in compensation.

But I don’t have children and I understand that lots of people don’t have the same affinity for big cities that I do. They are happy with those tradeoffs. To be able to buy a home or a condo for under $1 million. And for those workers, going from a $300k SF salary to something like $180k might be just fine.

But anyone expecting to make that $300k in Montana or Texas is fooling themselves. There will always be outliers who will be compensated more or the same, regardless of where they live. But those are outliers. It’s not the norm.

There are some that predict the move away from big cities will depress tech salaries in general. I think there might be some of that, but it just depends on how many people actually move. Part of the reason you have hubs in various industries like SF and Seattle and NYC and DC and Boston and LA is because that’s where a lot of the talent has decided to congregate. And talent!= company HQ. Atlanta probably does as much production work as LA does, but Hollywood and the film and television and streaming industries are still centered in Los Angeles. No studio executive is moving from Malibu to Buckhead (an actor or producer might buy a second house there, sure).

For tech, maybe there will be a wide dispersion. But I don’t think it’s a guarantee.

Re: Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

#154

Why is it so hard to realize that people want low taxes and light regulation? And that woke culture with it's free speech curtailment are a kind of 1984 environment where someone is watching your words constantly. California and NYC were great great states, and after decades of democrat governments, companies decide to move thousands of kilometers so they can leave these states in favor of Republican states. There's…

Still waiting for the great FAANG from Texas.

Re: Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until they learn about cedar fever. Juniperus ashei pollinates in the winter, starting right about now through February. Pollen levels are still relatively low, but by January the trees explode and people are miserable. Last January they were reporting almost 28,000 cedar pollen grains per cubic meter of air in the Austin area. Misery. Pure misery. https://www.kxan.com/top-stories/cedar-pollen-reaches-highes...

You left out scorpions.

In 12 years in Austin I have encountered zero scorpions indoors, and maybe a single-digit number outdoors. This despite essentially constantly walking barefoot in both. In my entire life in Texas I've been stung by a scorpion exactly one time.

Re: Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

#156

Why is it so hard to realize that people want low taxes and light regulation? And that woke culture with it's free speech curtailment are a kind of 1984 environment where someone is watching your words constantly. California and NYC were great great states, and after decades of democrat governments, companies decide to move thousands of kilometers so they can leave these states in favor of Republican states. There's…

Well your political fantasy happens to be wrong. California experiences a net influx of highly skilled workers draining them from the rest of the US (https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/2019...) and red states mostly lose their brightest people or absorb California residents from older failing industries who can’t afford the rents. The majority of this is about cost of living not taxes. Corporate taxes and income taxes have not really changed in recent years and California overall ranks in the middle of US states by EFFECTIVE tax rate (not the top marginal which few people pay but conservatives love to cite)

Go read that study by the government on internal US migration.

These “shackles” you’re talking about took me from someone who used to live in a ghetto to someone in the top 1%. The taxes are a small price to pay. Obsessing over marginal income tax rates is the wrong variable to optimize in life.

Do what you love, where you love, because it’s your passion, not because you can shave 3% off of your effective tax.

Most entrepreneurs don’t obsess over taxes, they’re focused on growth and solving problems, profit comes later.

The constant hyper focus on marginal tax rates is a form of bean counter myopia. It’s what you do when your company is effectively in maintenance mode and beholden to the bean counters on Wall Street, not when your trying to win your market space.

Wake me when Apple decides To move its HQ to a red state.

Re: Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

#157
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does labor law impact anything when everyone is WFH ? Also, do taxes really have anything to do with your HQ location ? All corporations are registered in Delaware.

AFAIK, WFH employees have CA tax obligations when the company HQ is in CA, even if they’re working from other states. So all non-CA employees have less of a tax burden as a result of the HQ relocation.

I don't think this is true. Employees pay taxes based on residency requirement. So if you are not a resident of CA, you don't pay taxes, regardless of where your HQ is

Re: Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

#158

Why is it so hard to realize that people want low taxes and light regulation? And that woke culture with it's free speech curtailment are a kind of 1984 environment where someone is watching your words constantly. California and NYC were great great states, and after decades of democrat governments, companies decide to move thousands of kilometers so they can leave these states in favor of Republican states. There's…

Ree-hee-hee-ally? California is far and away the #1 destination of educated and wealthy domestic migrants, especially from "red states", by which I assume you mean states that habitually vote for Republicans. Pick any MAGA-infested den of ignorance that you prefer, and the story is the same. I choose Sioux Falls, SD, which has an overall negative net domestic migration that is extremely negative among people with some college, college degrees, and post-graduate educations but positive among people with high school diplomas and high-school dropouts. Bay Area domestic migration is the complement of this process: very positive among post-graduates and college grads, very negative among high school and less.

Same basic story if you break it down by income levels.

Why is this? There are large classes of people who can't stand to live in the MAGAsphere, and I mean huge classes of people like females, people of color, homosexuals, and non-christians. Whenever these people scrape together enough money to do so, they escape to a jurisdiction that recognizes their personhood, whether that be New York, California, or Austin.

Re: Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

#159
post #36

I'm super curious how this will WFH Covid-era will play out for the Bay Area. I think the question I haven't figured out is job mobility. Pre-covid, even if you lost your job here as an engineer, finding another company thats interesting with the right pay isn't too hard which is one of the best appeals of SV. I wonder how this will play out in terms of this dynamic.

I'm curious about how it plays out... everywhere. I live in what's being called a "Zoom town", with lots of remote workers who seem to want a smaller town with more outdoor access (Bend, Oregon if you're curious). House prices are going through the roof. But Bend was already hot, and on people's radar. Yesterday I saw an article about housing heating up in Baker City Oregon. This is a small town of 10K people that is…

Baker City? Wow. I'm rather shocked.

I mean, yes, nice place. Not near anywhere. If you like ranching/farming communities with mountains nearby, it's pretty good. But how are internet speeds? And if you need to come back to "civilization", where's the nearest airport with commercial flights?

Re: Oracle Moving HQ to Austin

#160
post #42

Likely irrelevant, but reminded me of this[0]: """Basically, we’re moving because of William Whyte‘s rule: virtually all corporate relocations involve a move to a location which is closer to the CEO’s home than the old location. Whyte discovered this principle after an extensive study of Fortune 500 companies that left New York City for the suburbs in the 1950s and 1960s""" Tesla will likely move its HQ to Texas foll…

Interesting, somehow I don’t think how companies where run in the 1950-1960 translates to today

Look at the google ML firing/resigning storm, in the 50s someone fired end of story not the CEO saying they will investigate (honesty transparency aside)

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