The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’ • Hacker News Board

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#151

Post by 08-15 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

cbozeman wrote: post #136

sandworm101 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever see the BBC series "The IT Crowd"? There is a great scene that illustrates the class differences when it comes to work and fitness. The boss is giving a speech about stress. He is head-to-toe in spandex having just commuted in on a bike. Everyone else is in office attire. Only certain people in certain jobs enjoy the luxury of mixing work and fitness. Even something as simple as having some free weights at work…

Reading the first post in this chain makes me laugh, not just at the cluelessness of this person, but that this person could be mid-30s and still think this way. I have a distant cousin that I see only at family gatherings. She's an injection molding worker for an automotive parts company (IAC). She gets one 10 minute break and one 30 minute break in an 8 hour shift. The rest of her time, she's picking up plastic car…

However, that's an eight hour shift, not twelve as mentioned in the article. Eight hours of work, eight hours of sleep, and two hours of commuting and personal hygiene still leaves a full six hours per day to use however she likes. That doesn't sound too bad.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#152

Post by forgotmypw17 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

>The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day. A lot of this has to do with cultivating the right attitude and not getting exploited by others. At work, don't allow your employer to work you to the bone; work at a steady and enjoyable pace, take lots of breaks to socialize with colleagues, get coffee, go for walks, eat a long lunch in the park, etc.

I want to add to that: Find work which improves the overall state of the world.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#153

Post by forgotmypw17 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 7:18 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #8

Here’s how you fix this. Go to bed early and wake up earlier. I do honestly believe that young adults naturally stay up later though. I think there’s an evolutionary reason for it, basically to keep the nights watch and ward off predators.

This doesn't work for me. Evolutionarily speaking, we evolved without a regular day-to-day sleeping schedule until the advent of agriculture (see my other lengthy comment on this.)

What worked for me was putting my time and energy towards things which I feel improve the world.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#154

Post by anigbrowl » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

Can we have an article about the psychology of wringing your employees dry and pretending that 72 hour weeks are a normal or reasonable thing?

While China is nominally communist (insofar as all other political parties are banned) in practice the economy there is based on hypercapitalism coupled with industrial policy and strict regulation; it's very apparent that workers have little to no 'control over the means of production' or any kind of ownership or autonomy within their workplace. It's 'communist' in the same way that North Korea is 'democratic' - the political ideology just decorates an authoritarian power structure and has little to do with the everyday life of the population.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#155

Post by bradlys » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

dwaltrip wrote: post #119

bradlys wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t overexaggerate the facts. Programmers are /not/ in massive demand. Even skilled ones. It’s why there’s essentially no compensation growth for the last few years outside of FAANG. All growth has been through stock. The sheer massive number of people entering the field and how hard it is to get a job as an engineer should make this more obvious. If massive demand were true, we wouldn’t have ever increasingly diff…

It's hard to get your first software engineering job, but it is it any different than other industries? I don't think it is difficult to find a new job once you are established as a reasonably competent engineer. Do workers in other industries get constant messages via Linkedin and email for job opportunities?

> I don't think it is difficult to find a new job once you are established as a reasonably competent engineer.

It's gotten harder every year I've been in the industry. I have a limited set of experience since I've only worked since 2013. But, I've interviewed every single year for the last 7 years and the interviews keep getting tougher. Every time I decide to venture out - I have to prep more than I did the previous year. This year is obviously an exceptional year but I feel it's only going to set the bar for the future. I don't see them lowering the bar since enough people are still clearing it.

> Do workers in other industries get constant messages via Linkedin and email for job opportunities?

This means nothing to me, honestly. Most of the messages I get are spam recruiters. I suspect maybe 5% of recruiters are accountable for 95% of recruiter spam. As me and my peers pretty much all get the same emails.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#156

Post by anigbrowl » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #52

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank fuck some countries have had workers' revolutions that limit working hours and days - and make employers pay dearly for overtime. I mean there's workarounds like the gig economy, but for most people things are still pretty good.

Except for all the demanding jobs where you need to unofficially work outside your working hours... I live in one of those countries with a reasonable working hours limit, but I'm an academic, my partner is a doctor, both of us work "voluntarily" outside working hours. I need to prepare clases, request grants, and do research in a hypercompetitive environment where you need better CV than competitors. She needs to be…

I need to prepare clases, request grants, and do research in a hypercompetitive environment where you need better CV than competitors.

Not to be unsympathetic, but it's baffling to me why academics, who are mainly smart, innovative people, don't band together across disciplines to reshape their environment and wrest control out of the hands of the administrators who frequently make their life a misery.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#157

Post by snazz » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 7:31 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #150

dwaltrip wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to get your first software engineering job, but it is it any different than other industries? I don't think it is difficult to find a new job once you are established as a reasonably competent engineer. Do workers in other industries get constant messages via Linkedin and email for job opportunities?

They also don't get technical interviews, though.

Most other similarly-paid professions have some kind of standards body or at least far more rigorous formal education requirements. LeetCode interviews seem like a natural consequence of the low formal barrier to entry.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#158

Post by kaybe » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #67

colechristensen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch the sun set! I recently took a trip to the beach and spent a half hour or so outside in the transition between full light and darkness. It was surprising how tired I was feeling as early as it was. Let yourself experience the transition to night and then limit your light exposure.

Heh, around here (61° N) the sun currently sets at about 3:15 pm or so :D Need a light therapy lamp to convince my body that no, it's not time to go to sleep yet. Paradoxically, once it's actually time to go to sleep, my brain/body suddenly refuses to feel tired! Melatonin helps, though.

It's not as bad here at 51° N, but that does not mean it's possible to see the sun set or even be in a bright outside. (Though we were lucky and able to see the sun only the day before yesterday.)

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#159

Post by kaybe » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

airstrike wrote: post #96

tremon wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you close your eyes and poof there go 8 hours I wish I could say that about myself. Since a few months, I often lie awake for hours waiting for sleep to come along and poof the night away. More often than not, it takes until 3am for me to fall asleep, and I feel as broken as you might expect the next morning. I don't really have a good handle on what changed, or how to get back into my old sleep cycle. I just know it…

The first tip a "sleep doctor" will give you is to cut caffeine. Have you tried that?

I just saw a note this week that in cases like this it might be good to ask 'what have you tried?' before giving any advice. Maybe HN should get into that habit.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#160

Post by kayodelycaon » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 7:43 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #142

kayodelycaon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets worse when sleep isn't fleeting. Waking up every two hours and then struggling to get back to sleep really draws out the misery of working long hours. Note: Before anyone tries to give me advice, my depressive episodes cause primary insomnia. Whatever you think will work, won't. It's been tried.

A question: why do you personally believe the causality is depression causes insomnia? Alternatively why do you not think that insomnia causes depression?

Personally believe...?

I've been diagnosed Bipolar 1 by a psychiatrist. Primary insomnia is a known symptom of depressive episodes. Uncommon to be sure, but not unknown.

And to prove it really is primary insomnia, let me walk you through the three different kinds of insomnia I deal with.

1. Anxiety-related insomnia. Rare. My brain is stuck in a feedback loop.

2. Manic insomnia. Occasionally. My brain running overclocked and I don't feel tired. Imagine trying to sleep while doing lines of cocaine.

3. Depression insomnia. Common. My body can sleep but brain cannot sleep. I can lay in bed for eight hours, motionless and thoughtless while being fully conscious of every moment while my body rests. I get up with my body feeling great and my mind exhausted.