Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Beirut Port Explosion

forensic-architecture.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 226 posts

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#151

Post by zachrose »

mlindner wrote: post #99
spurgu wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But creating two extreme positions, and then lumping everyone into those positions, is called politics American politics. The amount of bipartisan countries in the world can be counted on one hand. But I get what you're saying and I agree completely.

America is certainly not the only country that divides things into "us vs them". I can think of several notable events in the past few years in various European countries that were exactly "us vs them" subjects. Even when there are multiple political parties in European politics the parties still tend to split into one of two major coalitions and those coalitions cause the people who support people in those coalition…

America is one of maybe half a dozen countries in the world with a two-party system. The others are Malta, Zimbabwe, Jamaica, and a few other Caribbean countries.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#153

Post by dmurray »

geofft wrote: post #114
merpnderp wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've reduced this to only two possible positions: support the police or don't support them. How polarizing is that? What about supporting the need for police while also supporting a need for reforming the police? I doubt there are even many cops that would disagree with a need for reform to some degree. But creating two extreme positions, and then lumping everyone into those positions, is called politics and is con…

You're only seeing these for specific issues that have become polarized because normal organic growth/reform/development/etc. has been halted. If it were not for the insular and unaccountable behavior of police, we would not be in a position where "abolish them entirely" would have more-than-fringe support. Ask someone what they think of something as "political" as the H-1B program, let alone, oh, federal cheese labe…

> Ask someone what they think of something as "political" as the H-1B program, let alone, oh, federal cheese labeling standards, and you'll see a lot of people who say "There are good and bad parts, I think we should keep the good parts and reform the bad ones, and my opinion on which specific parts are good or bad can be influenced by quality journalism."

Nah. That's what I would say, but everyone else is a rabid partisan who will slavishly push whichever side their tribe is taking right now on skilled immigration. Or cheese.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#154

Post by philwelch »

zachrose wrote: post #151
mlindner wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is certainly not the only country that divides things into "us vs them". I can think of several notable events in the past few years in various European countries that were exactly "us vs them" subjects. Even when there are multiple political parties in European politics the parties still tend to split into one of two major coalitions and those coalitions cause the people who support people in those coalition…

America is one of maybe half a dozen countries in the world with a two-party system. The others are Malta, Zimbabwe, Jamaica, and a few other Caribbean countries.

What's your source? That seems extremely specious to me, for two reasons.

First, the US does not technically have a two-party system. If your standard is how many parties have seats in the national legislature or parliament, the US has three parties represented since Justin Amash is now affiliated with the Libertarian Party, as well as a few independents.

Secondly, many countries only have two parties that really matter in terms of having a realistic chance of forming a government--the UK and Canada are two examples that spring to mind. The third largest parties in those countries are the SNP and Bloc Quebecois, respectively--parties who want some specific part of the country to have greater autonomy if not independence. If your complaint is that the US doesn't have a Texas Independence Party winning seats in Congress, weird flex but okay.

Virtually every polity that uses a first-past-the-post voting system will end up with a two-party system. That's Duverger's Law. The primary counterexamples only prove the point, because they more or less replace one of the two national parties on a local level. (I used to live in Seattle, and while Seattle politics are officially non-partisan, Seattle has actually developed a de facto two-party system between mainstream Democrats and socialists.)

I personally favor multiparty systems with proportional representation, but that's no guarantee of anything. Israel (which somehow still ends up with a de facto two party system anyway) and Belgium have both notoriously failed to form majority governments for long periods of time.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#155

Post by rtkwe »

agapon wrote: post #142
jcranmer wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, the warehouse was a collection of confiscated goods by customs at the port. So I can easily see that the managers at the warehouse didn't know and didn't care about proper safety storage procedures for these hazardous goods, since they hadn't been planning to acquire them in the first place. (In US legal terms, this would be recklessness). However, evidently some people (their affiliation is n…

My takeaway: some stuff is better not to confiscate / store as evidence. No one would store a jar of milk in a warehouse. No one would store piles of TNT or dynamite in such conditions. But they were storing just "goods". Lacking understanding of what those goods are and how they must be stored.

There were several reports over the years that warned them of how dangerous the AN was it was ignored because it was easier to ignore than to force someone to accept it for disposal.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#156

Post by ineedasername »

holler wrote: post #102
tsjq wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and some alleged welding sparks in the same location

totally crazy! there has to be more to the story

What would be the additional details? Welding is a pretty common activity in any sort of industrial area, especially when repairing large constructs made of metal. Sure, I guess there could be some salient detail we're missing, but welding alone is certainly a highly plausible catalyst.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#157

Post by rtkwe »

yyyk wrote: post #71

This investigation ignores a key question: How many kg of ammonium nitrate was actually in the warehouse. Surely that's extremely important to the models. They only mention an mtv news report mentioning the stated figure of 2750t. That figure comes from the ship's documents. Yet there are estimates that suggest the actual explosion is only equivalent to 1000-1500t[0], or 700-1000t[1]. If the actual amount of nitrate…

In an unconfined fire when it's not intentionally detonated it's not surprising that not all of it would have detonated because the entire mass would not be under the right conditions to detonate at once even during the detonation of the rest of the pile.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#158

Post by ineedasername »

bkmrkr wrote: post #25
_aleph2c_ wrote: post #13

Here is an article about how the ammonium nitrate ended up there in the first place: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/08/05/beirut-blast-traci... Here is an article about the history of ammonium nitrate: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/08/deadly-hi... (comment edited)

https://www.jpost.com/international/is-hezbollahs-ammonium-n...

Yes, their mustache-twirling nefarious plot to have large quantities of a relatively stable substance placed in a warehouse in the incredible hope the warehouse might some day also contain tons of fireworks, 10k tires, and detonation cord to set things off.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#159

Post by rtkwe »

amai wrote: post #131

They have identified four types of smoke plume. But they only reconstruct three types of material in the warehouse: fireworks, tires and ammonium nitrate. Aren't they missing something?

It goes initial small fire caused by the welders -> tires -> fireworks -> ammonium nitrate. The exact cause probably won't be known because there's been no video discovered that shows that portion of the warehouse and anyone close enough to have known were likely killed in the explosion. It's not particularly important though for the purpose of the investigation because the goal was to show establish clearly that the storage was negligent so victims can seek legal redress.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#160

Post by jeromegv »

philwelch wrote: post #154
zachrose wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is one of maybe half a dozen countries in the world with a two-party system. The others are Malta, Zimbabwe, Jamaica, and a few other Caribbean countries.

What's your source? That seems extremely specious to me, for two reasons. First, the US does not technically have a two-party system. If your standard is how many parties have seats in the national legislature or parliament, the US has three parties represented since Justin Amash is now affiliated with the Libertarian Party, as well as a few independents. Secondly, many countries only have two parties that really mat…

The typical third party in Canada is NDP, which has had support between 15-25% of the vote within the last decade depending on the election. Which is quite different and quite more than the Libertarian party in the USA which has a very negligible influence. They also have been in power within a few provinces quite frequently. I don't think Canada was your best pick to make your point.
Post reply on HN