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750M genetically modified mosquitoes to be released in Florida

bbc.com

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Re: 750M genetically modified mosquitoes to be released in Florida

#151

Post by andrewflnr »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #143
mattmanser wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how evolution works. If it's harmful, it will get selected against, and will disappear rather rapidly. There's a reason why they need to release 750 million genetically modified mosquitos, and not just 1.

Does evolution in that manner really apply to humans anymore? I'm basically blind without glasses and I still get to have kids, probably would have died as a useless child in caveman days Edit: I'm downvoted but I'm curious why. It seems to me that modern medicine has eliminated large parts of natural selection for humans. Is that not the case?

Presumably your mental abilities have compensated for your physical issues, thus increasing your fitness. That's valid evolutionary logic as well.

Re: 750M genetically modified mosquitoes to be released in Florida

#152

Post by robertlagrant »

> One group condemned the plan as a public "Jurassic Park experiment".

Exactly. I get that they might need to control the population. That's one thing. But making the mosquitoes 30ft tall and putting them on display as an amusement park is quite another.

Re: 750M genetically modified mosquitoes to be released in Florida

#153

Post by 4gotunameagain »

zaarn wrote: post #75
millstone wrote: post #63

Reading wikipedia, the Sterile Insect Technique seems awesome! I hope someone knowledgeable can answer some questions: 1. If a fertile female mates with a sterile male, why does she not just mate again? 2. How are males selected? 3. How are males sterilized? Wikipedia refers to "irradiation of reproductive cells" but this can't be so precisely targeted...right?

1. Various insects have limitations on how often they reproduce or the female always lays eggs after fertilization, regardless of if the male was fertile at all, causing infertile or inviable eggs to form. 2. Insects have chromosomes specific to their sex, similar to the XY System in Humans but the X0 System (ie, lack of an X chromosome is a male) is a bit more popular in this kingdom (IIRC). 3) Radiation can be very…

Radiation cannot be targeted precisely enough to affect individual parts of a mosquito. Even if you could somehow collimate a small enough beam, controlling the energy and modelling the mosquito so that the Bragg peak (point of maximum energy deposition along the beam axis) is where it should be, is not currently possible.

For example look at one of the most precise applications so far, proton beams for ocular cancers (e.g. Paul Scherrer Institute in Switzerland). The modelling required to calculate the correct energy is non trivial and with large uncertainties, and compare the size of an eye to a mosquito.

Additionally, individually doing this for millions of mosquitoes is not possible right now

Re: 750M genetically modified mosquitoes to be released in Florida

#154

Post by zaarn »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #153
zaarn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Various insects have limitations on how often they reproduce or the female always lays eggs after fertilization, regardless of if the male was fertile at all, causing infertile or inviable eggs to form. 2. Insects have chromosomes specific to their sex, similar to the XY System in Humans but the X0 System (ie, lack of an X chromosome is a male) is a bit more popular in this kingdom (IIRC). 3) Radiation can be very…

Radiation cannot be targeted precisely enough to affect individual parts of a mosquito. Even if you could somehow collimate a small enough beam, controlling the energy and modelling the mosquito so that the Bragg peak (point of maximum energy deposition along the beam axis) is where it should be, is not currently possible. For example look at one of the most precise applications so far, proton beams for ocular cancer…

You don't have to aim it at a point, a line is good enough. A cyclotron should be sufficient to generate a disk-shape of radiation, which could be aimed downwards, via Bremsstrahlung. You could aim that just outside feeding places so that the backside of the mosquittos remain exposed, should be possible to do that on a large scale to make millions of them. You can make it easier if you consider that it's sufficient if their offspring is infertile and reduce the dose for the initial generation, then just blast the followup generation with a general dose.

Re: 750M genetically modified mosquitoes to be released in Florida

#155

Post by mcjkrw »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #143
mattmanser wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how evolution works. If it's harmful, it will get selected against, and will disappear rather rapidly. There's a reason why they need to release 750 million genetically modified mosquitos, and not just 1.

Does evolution in that manner really apply to humans anymore? I'm basically blind without glasses and I still get to have kids, probably would have died as a useless child in caveman days Edit: I'm downvoted but I'm curious why. It seems to me that modern medicine has eliminated large parts of natural selection for humans. Is that not the case?

I think it's about that the natural selection applies only to the current environment. We are not to be fit to live in caveman days, but in the modern society. If having a condition does not present an obstacle to navigate the world and mate, then it won't be selected against.

Re: 750M genetically modified mosquitoes to be released in Florida

#156

Post by ac2u »

hilbert42 wrote: post #107
ac2u wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can't these idiots realize that whilst there's risks that they're outweighed by the benefits. Please list the extent of the risks and the impact so that we can weigh it up against the benefits. Make sure you remember every risk, no skipsies.

Go and read my long extensive epistles on COVID-19 and the opioid epidemic and then you tell me what I've missed out. Please list them all carefully (I'll then add then to the list.) Incidentally, search HN and you'll find the list of relevant items available is almost inexhaustible.

>and then you tell me what I've missed out.

You've missed my point. Asking you to list out all the risks is rhetorical because you can't list your unknown unknowns.

I wasn't challenging you to actually list them but to show you that you can't claim the ability to weigh the risks against the benefits like you claimed since there might be risks you're not accounting for.

So you might counter with "well then by that logic we shouldn't do anything for fear of the unknown unknowns"

But to that I would say the difference here is you're playing with an system of immeasurable feedback loops too complex for anyone to model.

What's being introduced here is another feedback loop with no backsies, and what if we find out later we've made a catastrophic mistake?

Re: 750M genetically modified mosquitoes to be released in Florida

#157

Post by Clubber »

hilbert42 wrote: post #102
ed-209 wrote: post #51

The stupidity of smart people never ceases to amaze.

Tragically there have been so many instances over the years I've come to the conclusion it's part of the Human condition - even a good education doesn't eradicate it (although it helps). Take the classic example, just look at how completely bonkers millions of intelligent Germans went during the 1930s. The condition I'm afraid is incurable. What's even worse is that it seems that under the right circumstances anyone…

Humans are emotional creatures that can think, not thinking creatures that have emotions.

Re: 750M genetically modified mosquitoes to be released in Florida

#158

Post by [deleted] »

ac2u wrote: post #156
hilbert42 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go and read my long extensive epistles on COVID-19 and the opioid epidemic and then you tell me what I've missed out. Please list them all carefully (I'll then add then to the list.) Incidentally, search HN and you'll find the list of relevant items available is almost inexhaustible.

>and then you tell me what I've missed out. You've missed my point. Asking you to list out all the risks is rhetorical because you can't list your unknown unknowns. I wasn't challenging you to actually list them but to show you that you can't claim the ability to weigh the risks against the benefits like you claimed since there might be risks you're not accounting for. So you might counter with "well then by that log…

[deleted]

Re: 750M genetically modified mosquitoes to be released in Florida

#159

Post by hilbert42 »

Clubber wrote: post #157
hilbert42 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tragically there have been so many instances over the years I've come to the conclusion it's part of the Human condition - even a good education doesn't eradicate it (although it helps). Take the classic example, just look at how completely bonkers millions of intelligent Germans went during the 1930s. The condition I'm afraid is incurable. What's even worse is that it seems that under the right circumstances anyone…

Humans are emotional creatures that can think, not thinking creatures that have emotions.

Damn shame isn't it, think of the money and lives saved on not having wars and not pursuing other mad activities.

Anyway, it seems we won't have to wait long, AI will managing us before long, it'll ensure our emotions are kept straitjacketed and well under its control.

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