Next.js 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: Next.js 10

#151

Post by neves » Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 9:39 PM UTC

azemetre wrote: post #135

neves wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is DX? New jargon?

If UX is user experience, the user flows of a product/application and how people generally feel about using/interacting with it. The DX is the developer experience. It follows a similar idea. How do you feel about using git? What about Visual Studio Code versus neovim? How do you like using Elm? What don't you like about. Think about all the libraries or frameworks you use. Some of them clearly offer a better experie…

Thanks for the explanation, but it is really unnecessary. Developers are the users for developer tools. UX fits perfectly nice.

Re: Next.js 10

#152

Post by jerrycruncher » Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

revicon wrote: post #131

mulholio wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think create-react-app is much more beginner friendly. Fewer concepts to learn. Rolling your own or using script tags to begin with is also an option (see this course for an example: https://egghead.io/courses/the-beginner-s-guide-to-react )

And create-react-app would be all I would ever need except that SEO on single page apps that don't have data loaded upon load really sucks compared to server side rendered pages. Is there a way to build a site using create-react-app and enable server side rendering without implementing a whole other framework like Nextjs?

We used React Router's ssr process described here[1] on my last React project. It worked ok, but there's a bit of hoop-jumping to go through if your pages are populated by async data.

[1] https://reactrouter.com/web/guides/server-rendering

Re: Next.js 10

#153

Post by tshaddox » Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #149

dnissley wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this not SSR streaming? https://reactjs.org/docs/react-dom-server.html#rendertonodes...

I could be wrong, but I don't think so, no. > The HTML output by this stream is exactly equal to what ReactDOMServer.renderToString would return. I imagine this returns a stream as a convenience for Node servers that are streaming chunks of HTML. I don't think it means that React's SSR is rendering chunks of HTML in an async fashion and returning each chunk to the stream as soon as it's ready. Also look at the last t…

You're right. ReactDOMServer.renderToNodeStream is to support HTML streaming, which can allow the browser to start rendering the (as far as it knows, static HTML) document before it receives all the HTML. This is nice, but probably is not a huge factor if you're using HTTP caching via a CDN or a static site generator (since the CDN will likely support HTML streaming).

Re: Next.js 10

#154

Post by gedy » Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 10:14 PM UTC

fasteo wrote: post #110

erokar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way. We've switched from React to Svelte at work. Going back to React would be a step backwards for us, so much feels needlessly overengineered with awkward APIs. React was a great improvement on Angular, but luckily things are still moving forward.

Which UI component library, if any, do you use with Svelte ?

Sveltestrap[0] but needs Bootstrap for the CSS styling (I personally like the separation but YMMV)

[0] https://sveltestrap.js.org/

Re: Next.js 10

#155

Post by joshmanders » Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 10:18 PM UTC

neves wrote: post #151

azemetre wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If UX is user experience, the user flows of a product/application and how people generally feel about using/interacting with it. The DX is the developer experience. It follows a similar idea. How do you feel about using git? What about Visual Studio Code versus neovim? How do you like using Elm? What don't you like about. Think about all the libraries or frameworks you use. Some of them clearly offer a better experie…

Thanks for the explanation, but it is really unnecessary. Developers are the users for developer tools. UX fits perfectly nice.

> but it is really unnecessary.

You may think that, but it's a standardized term already.

Re: Next.js 10

#156

Post by KaoruAoiShiho » Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 10:18 PM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #10

The big elephant in the room most of these frameworks are missing is partial hydration. Instead of hydrating the whole page, only the interactive parts are hydrated, sending the absolutely minimal JS needed to the client. AFAIK only Marko has this feature today. Since it's developed and used at Ebay they focused on the best SSR+hydration experience from the start. Imba v2 will also have patial hydration (confirmed by…

Is Marko the ONLY framework with this feature? Surely there's some more.

Re: Next.js 10

#157

Post by hombre_fatal » Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

neves wrote: post #151

azemetre wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If UX is user experience, the user flows of a product/application and how people generally feel about using/interacting with it. The DX is the developer experience. It follows a similar idea. How do you feel about using git? What about Visual Studio Code versus neovim? How do you like using Elm? What don't you like about. Think about all the libraries or frameworks you use. Some of them clearly offer a better experie…

Thanks for the explanation, but it is really unnecessary. Developers are the users for developer tools. UX fits perfectly nice.

It's confusing or always needs further distinction if "UX" when discussing client-side application development is talking about developers. "DX" is useful.

Re: Next.js 10

#158

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #157

neves wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the explanation, but it is really unnecessary. Developers are the users for developer tools. UX fits perfectly nice.

It's confusing or always needs further distinction if "UX" when discussing client-side application development is talking about developers. "DX" is useful.

OTOH, when I hear about DX of a software product (especially an open source one), my intuitive understanding is that it is experience of developers working on the product, not of developers that happen to be users of the product (which, if they are the normal users of the product, would just be UX.)

Re: Next.js 10

#159

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

azemetre wrote: post #135

neves wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is DX? New jargon?

If UX is user experience, the user flows of a product/application and how people generally feel about using/interacting with it. The DX is the developer experience. It follows a similar idea. How do you feel about using git? What about Visual Studio Code versus neovim? How do you like using Elm? What don't you like about. Think about all the libraries or frameworks you use. Some of them clearly offer a better experie…

> The DX is the developer experience. It follows a similar idea. How do you feel about using git?

To me, how I feel about using (working with) git is git's UX.

How I would feel working on git (were I to do so) would be git's DX.

Now, for a project that has git as part of its expected dev tooling, how I feel about using git in that particular context would be part of that particular project's DX.

Re: Next.js 10

#160

Post by hombre_fatal » Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #62

Am I the only developer that feels that React ... and perhaps the whole web paradigm ... is about the worst way to think about and develop client GUIs? After using Google's new Flutter framework (which is built to develop cross platform apps: iOS, Android, Web, embedded) I felt like I had my eyes open. The structure seems so much more logical and easy to navigate. The Web (and React) paradigm of putting some code in…

Flutter has even more abstraction than what most people are using for web clients. That doesn't come for free, though it tends to always look like 100% upside until you actually use it and see the trade-offs it makes. Ruby on Rails also used to attract a lot of comments like yours until people realized the trade-offs.

Btw, if Flutter makes the web dev paradigm look bad, then I wonder what you think of the iOS/Android/desktop client paradigms where you don't even get much choice like you have on the web. Like using Core Data's "ORM".

You're essentially hoping Flutter spares you from ever having to drill any deeper than the Flutter abstraction on each of your deploy targets which simply doesn't yet match reality. And of all the client dev experiences, it's the web that has the options closest to Flutter, so it's not the one I'd damn first.