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Ask HN: What are real-life useful use-cases for blockchain (not currencies)?

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Re: Ask HN: What are real-life useful use-cases for blockchain (not currencies)?

#151

Post by beh9540 »

rebelos wrote: post #136
snarf21 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but your solution solves nothing. The transporter could take a picture of the odometer and tweak the image. Your solution is only as secure as the input flow and you can't control it. A blockchain can't reflect physical reality. It can only reflect what someone said/says physical reality is. Additionally, they have to trust you to push the "right" data to the blockchain. If they are already trusting you, you c…

I would just like to say that if anyone has a rational counterargument to this, I really want to hear it. This is precisely the observation past which the logic becomes less coherent in just about any conversation I've had on blockchain applications.

Maybe instead of an image, both parties could use an ODB reader that signs the mileage cryptographically, and pushes it to the blockchain?

This way both parties could verify the transaction was completed as contracted (IE no joyrides).

I'm still in the camp this probably doesn't need blockchain, but that would at least handle the image manipulation problem.

Re: Ask HN: What are real-life useful use-cases for blockchain (not currencies)?

#152

Post by catlifeonmars »

sebmellen wrote: post #7

The biggest use case I have found of blockchain tech is timestamping, especially in a case where the timestamping party cannot be trusted to act honestly because of conflicting interests. I'll give you an example, from one of my startup's enterprise customers. This company needs to ensure that their high-end auto inventory remains in the same state through transport — the mileage, the car body, etc. They've had issue…

How do you authenticate that timestamps are accurate?

Re: Ask HN: What are real-life useful use-cases for blockchain (not currencies)?

#153

Post by GartzenDeHaes »

The biggest use would be for Automated Clearing House (ACH) funds transfers. Right now, banks receive and send money by sending flat files through a distributed processing system with no database transactions, verification, or transfer history. Some big bank robberies were committed a few years ago by compromising the banking systems that create and process these files. Once the file is sent to the ACH network, reversing transactions is a manual process and is nearly impossible after the funds leave the destination to a 3rd party.

Re: Ask HN: What are real-life useful use-cases for blockchain (not currencies)?

#155

Post by FunkyMJ »

beh9540 wrote: post #151
rebelos wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would just like to say that if anyone has a rational counterargument to this, I really want to hear it. This is precisely the observation past which the logic becomes less coherent in just about any conversation I've had on blockchain applications.

Maybe instead of an image, both parties could use an ODB reader that signs the mileage cryptographically, and pushes it to the blockchain? This way both parties could verify the transaction was completed as contracted (IE no joyrides). I'm still in the camp this probably doesn't need blockchain, but that would at least handle the image manipulation problem.

Why can't you just sign the image of the odometer?

Re: Ask HN: What are real-life useful use-cases for blockchain (not currencies)?

#157

Post by smt88 »

muzani wrote: post #138
sebmellen wrote: post #7

The biggest use case I have found of blockchain tech is timestamping, especially in a case where the timestamping party cannot be trusted to act honestly because of conflicting interests. I'll give you an example, from one of my startup's enterprise customers. This company needs to ensure that their high-end auto inventory remains in the same state through transport — the mileage, the car body, etc. They've had issue…

We do something similar at our startup. Basically we're a communication tool for construction, maintenance work and visitor management. Our selling point is simply data consistency, e.g. you can't edit posts, unlike on Facebook, and deleting will give a notice. Photos taken from the app are signed and location stamped. I think it's interesting that people comment you can just take a photo of an odometer, but that's n…

I'm curious what you mean by "blockchain" here.

A lot of people talk about the benefits of blockchain and then describe a cryptographically-secured, append-only database (something like Amazon's QLDB[1], which does not have distributed trust or ownership).

If you're not actually using a blockchain, then disregard.

If you are using a blockchain, how does it add trust? Isn't your company, which controls the I/O for the system, still the central authority?

1. https://aws.amazon.com/qldb/features/

Re: Ask HN: What are real-life useful use-cases for blockchain (not currencies)?

#158

Post by breatheoften »

I'm not sure what specific technologies "blockchain databases" is limited to -- but one use case that has been bandying around me head ...

I think there could be a very powerful set of regulatory technologies created on top of blockchain style databases when used in conjunction with legally binding agreements intended to limit access to reads of the data.

Imagine a data lake for "enforcing" audit-ability of reads --

1. you may "store" some data in the lake -- say for example P2 2. if you "store" data in the lake you agree that you will not store that data anywhere else

"store" above would in actual implementation be something like storing a key for decrypting the data -- which could be stored wherever in an encrypted form and the agreement would mean "i'm not storing the key anywhere and i'm not storing the decrypting contents in any form other than as encrypted by the key".

You would leverage blockchain to ensure that all reads of the data are observable.

Obviously you can't "enforce" that the data being protected is not stored in other places or in other forms -- however the agreement "i will not store anywhere else" can be given legal or regulatory force to provide a way to punish violators.

The goal tho is to build a platform for explicitly acknowledging and communicating to both external auditors and the developers that "i'm not supposed to store this in other places". That's a technology problem which a lot of good faith implementors need help with solving ...

Re: Ask HN: What are real-life useful use-cases for blockchain (not currencies)?

#159

Post by smt88 »

jedimastert wrote: post #15
xchaotic wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why does it need a distributed blockchain though? Why not just put it in a database?

Because the person who owns the database has to be trusted, where here no one has to be

In GP's example, the "person who owns the database" is already trusted because they wrote the software. The software can insert lies into the blockchain very easily.

I'd also argue that the "person who owns the database" is not just trusted but also trustworthy. They have an incentive to keep lies out of the data.

If the people you can't trust are your users, then blockchain doesn't really add anything. They can insert lies, and you have to verify them. All you get is a guarantee that no one changed their lies to something else.

Re: Ask HN: What are real-life useful use-cases for blockchain (not currencies)?

#160

Post by smt88 »

poiuiopkj wrote: post #94
root_axis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing proves that the timestamp accurately reflects when the photo was taken or that the photo itself is even accurate. If I wanted to joy-ride one of these cars I'd simply do so before taking the photo. The odometer display can also be trivially modified for the sake of a photo (i.e. roll back the odo for a photo and then revert to accurate numbers after the photo)

The next entity in the supply chain would have an odometer that didn't match the picture that was previously posted. It limits who is possibly at fault to a minimum of one of two parties, which I'm sure could be narrowed down further by corroborating evidence. It highly discourages it because at the very least, you would be the first suspect with no real finger to point.

That's true, but none of that is enabled by blockchain. You can do all of that with an append-only, distributed database that is cryptographically verifiable. You don't need a public blockchain (or any blockchain at all).
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