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A case for using punctuation in Slack

blog.mitchjlee.com

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Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#151

Post by bleeding »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #114
greggyb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've come across the period-as-negative idea before. I communicate in text media to audiences ranging from people in their early twenties to several decades my senior. I strive to communicate similarly to all. This includes capitalization and punctuation. I've discussed the negative period with several folks in this range, and none indicate that they view my communication as abrupt, brief, or negative, but that they…

> I ultimately come to this conclusion. A period is a tiny piece of a message. If something so small makes your message seem in some way negative, then your communication is already on the margin. You should look at other areas of your communication to improve. You're taking it all the way to an extreme where kids these days must be getting upset over periods in messages and wincing with tender emotions (which was a…

Even absent a study providing empirical evidence (the OP might not even have been referring to any sort of study, perhaps his comment was meant to reference his personal experience) the statement could still be true. If you are sending primarily one-sentence messages, as many people do in SMS/iMessage/Slack, the line break effectively serves the function of denoting the end of a single sentence. And if that is the case, what is the purpose of a period other than to add additional, perhaps emotional, meaning to the sentence?

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#152

Post by 8ytecoder »

greggyb wrote: post #83
adjkant wrote: post #41

The message beyond the HN title actually has potential. However, the author focuses in some odd places for me. As far as punctuation, ending periods actually have negative emotion in text vernacular now for younger audiences and should almost never be used in 1-1 messaging. Exclamation points, commas, and question marks, great! For abbreviations, it's simply know your audience. You should use them when everyone in th…

I've come across the period-as-negative idea before. I communicate in text media to audiences ranging from people in their early twenties to several decades my senior. I strive to communicate similarly to all. This includes capitalization and punctuation. I've discussed the negative period with several folks in this range, and none indicate that they view my communication as abrupt, brief, or negative, but that they…

It's usually the shift in tone or language that people notice. If you always call you husband darling and one day call him by name, the man's going to piss his pants wondering what he did wrong. If you write informally and without punctuation and one day shift to a formal message with proper punctuation, the change in tone won't go unnoticed. It signals a change in the relationship, barring any other major shifts.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#153

Post by musingsole »

BeetleB wrote: post #140
musingsole wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a new or unknown convention/perception (as shown by the article posted here discussing the pissed period in 2013). I can't tell you why you would've been unaware of it, and I certainly wouldn't want to offend by guessing! :P A lot of it has to be context. If I'm talking to someone new, I'm going to try very hard to read very little into the text they've sent me. If it's a message from my partner -- yeah, eve…

> It's not a new or unknown convention/perception (as shown by the article posted here discussing the pissed period in 2013) 2013 is new. When you say: > because experience generally proves out most people only use a period in a single statement message if they're emphasizing firmness I suspect your experience is with one crowd, and older people's experience is not as much with that crowd. Furthermore, older people s…

> I suspect your experience is with one crowd

That's a large assumption without knowing a thing about me. Though I exist in a bubble as everyone else. Age with internet chatting is interesting because no matter how old you are, there is actually a finite amount of experience anyone alive today could have with it. There's a large age block that irrespective of the individual age probably have about the same level of experience with chat (i.e. starting on usenet/IRC and staying with it all until now). Oh, I know some fortran. Still wanna guess my age?

I'm going to re-emphasize a point I made earlier that invalidates any age-based arguments: Poetry. The conventions of interpreting far more meaning from punctuation than a reader tends to from long form prose have been around far longer than anyone alive today.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#154

Post by ghaff »

Bedon292 wrote: post #131
tashoecraft wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're writing small, short sentences, there is something off putting about periods. It's just part of the how text based communication has become. Emojis are good because words can be interpreted with a tone that was unintended, and can lead to all sorts of communication problems. It's small and simple, but an appropriate emoji helps convey our emotions in a way that is more difficult to in short, text based me…

I always attempt to write, even on Slack or other chat programs, in such a way that no unintended tone comes across. To me it feels like I have failed in communicating if an emoji is necessary to convey a message. I honestly cannot think of anywhere I could use them to make a message clearer. But, I will be asking a few folks if there is an issue with my communication, and if I can be more clear in any way. Including…

I mostly just use the 3 or 4 "base" emojis. But, particularly in relatively terse emails/messages, I think it's often useful to indicate that you don't intend to be taken literally/totally seriously/etc. I suppose that you can just avoid making flippant remarks and such but that's not the way most people communicate casually in person.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#155

Post by stu2b50 »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #134
Bedon292 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always attempt to write, even on Slack or other chat programs, in such a way that no unintended tone comes across. To me it feels like I have failed in communicating if an emoji is necessary to convey a message. I honestly cannot think of anywhere I could use them to make a message clearer. But, I will be asking a few folks if there is an issue with my communication, and if I can be more clear in any way. Including…

I agree, I think the only appropriate time for an emoji is to acknowledge somebodies else's message but you don't have anything you want to say. A thumbs up or a celebrate.

I disagree, I think there's many times where a statement can clearly seem hostile, or jovial, at the same time, and adding some emojis to lean towards jovial will make it a 100% safe message.

Sure, you can add context in other ways, but it's quick, easy, and effective. Is it unprofessional? Perhaps in an email, but I don't consider every slack message something that should be "professional" in tone. You don't speak professionally to every person IRL (or, at least I hope you don't).

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#156

Post by ghaff »

pmiller2 wrote: post #147
Bedon292 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that is how I know I am getting old? I have never even heard of anyone thinking a sentence ending in a period is anything but normal. And I actually detest the use of exclamation points. They are almost always unnecessary. And I probably read too much into them, as opposed to others doing the same on periods. It is interesting though. Looking back at chat history. If I am not writing multiple sentences, and e…

Hah! Well, I'm so old, I remember having two spaces after every period. And, I, too, hate waking up to 12 notifications, of which 3-4 are usually pings to my team alias, and then seeing a bunch of DM notifications. It makes me feel like I missed something urgent, when, often, it's just people who hate putting periods after the end of their thoughts. Maddening!

To be honest, I have almost all mobile device notifications turned off. Though I realize some people are in groups that have more of an expectation of immediate response.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#157

Post by neodymiumphish »

tashoecraft wrote: post #138
Bedon292 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always attempt to write, even on Slack or other chat programs, in such a way that no unintended tone comes across. To me it feels like I have failed in communicating if an emoji is necessary to convey a message. I honestly cannot think of anywhere I could use them to make a message clearer. But, I will be asking a few folks if there is an issue with my communication, and if I can be more clear in any way. Including…

I think with just the shear amount of messaging that is occurring in todays age combined with the lines being blurred between work and home makes communication rapidly evolve. What one things is clear communication with no ambiguity, another might disagree. An example is responding back to a message with "Ok.". I see many over, say, 50 do this much more often, but to many under, say 30, this is taken as very passive…

To be fair, I'm over 30 and I'd wonder whether "Ok." was passive aggressive in-person or online.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#158

Post by ghaff »

kps wrote: post #119
greggyb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've come across the period-as-negative idea before. I communicate in text media to audiences ranging from people in their early twenties to several decades my senior. I strive to communicate similarly to all. This includes capitalization and punctuation. I've discussed the negative period with several folks in this range, and none indicate that they view my communication as abrupt, brief, or negative, but that they…

> I've come across the period-as-negative idea before. I've never come across the period-as-negative idea before. From the discussion here, it sounds like in-group signalling. For me, punctuation is an unconsious part of writing, and it would take special effort (or a browser extension) to remove it so as not to be marked as an outsider.

I mean, even iOS specifically makes it easy to end a sentence with a period by making a double-spacebar make a period.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#159

Post by neodymiumphish »

Jedd wrote: post #148
tashoecraft wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're writing small, short sentences, there is something off putting about periods. It's just part of the how text based communication has become. Emojis are good because words can be interpreted with a tone that was unintended, and can lead to all sorts of communication problems. It's small and simple, but an appropriate emoji helps convey our emotions in a way that is more difficult to in short, text based me…

> When you're writing small, short sentences, there is something off putting about periods. Well, that may be the case for some people, but I am not convinced it's the general case. Also, how do you write (delineate, identify, etc) small, short sentences without periods? I'm assuming people in a hurry - that don't have time for punctuation - do have time for tautological constructs? (small, short) ; )

I see it done that way a lot where each small sentence is its own message. Even more annoyingly, they often do it in a main channel on Slack after the message they're responding to, instead of "replying in thread".
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