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Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

manuel.darcemont.fr

151–160 of 396 posts

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#151

Advice to my young self: put MORE effort into one of your 100 side projects, and stop messing around with other stuff.

Where did you get 100 ideas worthy of implementation? My imagination is so terrible, I can only imagine stupid ideas like Reddit clones.

Generally I find that trying to solve problems begets more problems (i.e. side projects beget side projects). Choose a tech stack and start building a Reddit clone, and you'll quickly hit roadblocks and get ideas.

Started a new side-project on the weekend (after a long long hiatus of just focusing on day job). Phase 1 was simply getting the stack up and running (PostgreSQL-backed, Python gRPC service taking gRPC-web through Envoy to a React front-end). Took some fighting through the setup to get a full-stack existence proof, ideas that arose during the working session:

side-project TODO #1 - Write a blog post about getting this all setup using current versions and push a public github repo with the setup to help other out.

side-project idea #2 - Build a micro-PaaS where a customer can define a gRPC interface, Python module implementing that, and with a single command, push this to a live serving endpoint.

side-project idea #3 - I need a state machine as part of my application logic, TODO: write a Python non-ephemeral state machine library that, with a simple Python internal DSL, backs state machine persistence onto a PostgreSQL table, handle automatic schema updates as the state machine is changed / versioned.

Literally not enough time to do any of these things though :)

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#152
post #72
post #8

> First, most recruiters don’t care about your personal projects or how many meetups you went during the year. What matters the most is your current company - and by that I mean the name of your current company. He is so much right here. Recruiters don't have the time to go through and understand your side projects, for that matter even engineers don't. Most interviews are 45-60 mins, you need to scope your interview…

I never understood why people cared so much about company "name" until a handful of years ago. It's not about "status" in terms of what kind of fancy clothes you wear, but it absolutely signals an ability to clear a certain kind of bar, produce a certain kind of work, and experience things on a scale that you wouldn't at a smaller shop. It doesn't mean one path is right or wrong for a job (I know many people who swit…

I suspect "clear a certain kind of bar" is the biggest part of this.

Imagine you're a recruiter at Facebook. You reach out to thousands of candidates, convince hundreds to come in for interviews, and almost all of them fail because the interviews are hard and test skills that need to be specifically trained. If you convince a Googler to come in for an interview, they probably have a nearly 50% chance of passing since they've already done it at least once.

The recruiters are not exactly incentivized to bring in people who will be great hires. They are incentivized to bring in people who can pass the interview.

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#153
post #28

> First, most recruiters don’t care about your personal projects or how many meetups you went during the... Why are you trying to impress recruiters? I mean, the entire point of the post is wrong, but impressing recruiters is downright stupid. Let's be frank: recruiters are bottom-of-the-totem-pole, lowest-common-denominator, bottom-feeders. If you aren't trying to do your own thing (which, let's face it, is the most…

impressing recruiters is downright stupid. Let's be frank: recruiters are bottom-of-the-totem-pole, lowest-common-denominator, bottom-feeders.

My friend, this isn't personal, but a fact: you're privileged.

I sense you've never been in a position where you have $3,000 in the bank, your wife is depending on you to get through college, and you have to get a job or you lose your apartment.

Out here dropping stories about Evan Spiegel; gimme a break. Most people don't know any CEOs, PMs, or hiring managers.

The funny part is, I agree with your premise. You are indeed presenting the best way of opening doors. It's worked for me, and has opened many doors.

But only when I was in a better position. Till then, it was one of the worst things I could have done. Focusing on playing the hiring game would have put me in a much stronger position.

The comment you made is slightly out of touch. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think you'll maybe look back on it in 10 years or so with a wince.

In the situation I described above, where you absolutely need that job, all the people you mention have a good chance of forgetting about you due to day-to-day politics. Guess who won't? That recruiter. Because they get a cut of your salary.

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#155
Side projects remind me a lot of extracurriculars in college admissions.

To the extent that they show that you have really accomplished something difficult they can be very impressive and differentiate you from other candidates. E.g. in terms of high school extracurriculars, if, say, you've reached the title of chess grandmaster that's impressive, if you went to chess club practice a couple times a week and were just decent at it that's not going to help.

As a software engineer, if you've built a site with millions of page views or written an open source library that many engineers have heard of, that definitely opens doors. (Though even then, maybe not in the way you're expecting. Any given recruiter still might not care or might not be able to remove the red tape for you just because of that. But you'll likely have certain unique opportunities become available). If you've thrown together a few sites in your free time and then moved on to other things, it's not that impressive.

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#156

Every time this topic comes up on HN I feel like the only person who does side projects because I enjoy them as a hobby. Learning for the job is distantly secondary, and getting my next job is tertiary. They're perks to something I'm doing anyway, not justifications for doing it. Yeah, I program at work, but the tasks I get at a software job don't scratch the itch that got me into tech in the first place. Just like h…

> I'm just boggled at how many people appear to find it unimaginable and unrelatable that a technologist likes technology enough to mess with it for fun, even after work.

It's not that I can't understand it. I don't have that urge personally but I can see where it comes from and if that makes you happy go for it! The reason I personally get so defensive and anti side project is because as someone who's very defensive of their non-work time (due to spending it on other productive hobbies that bring more joy into my life than anything else) I've experienced a lot of colleagues/managers who have tried pressure or belittle me into doing side projects. It's been implied that I'm not a 'real' engineer or that I can't be successful in my career if I don't. And frankly I resent that attitude because it's bullshit and it tries to take away time from the things that make my life truly joyful.

As you say do what makes you happy, side projects or not. Unfortunately a lot of folk on the side projects side don't/won't accept them as optional if you want to be seen as a competent engineer.

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#159
FYI, the title is a bit misleading, the content here is moreso just about not expecting side projects to be good career development strategy, but it ends on a note saying that you should do side projects just because you feel like it:

"I don’t want to make this blog post a rant against side projects. In fact, I’m advocating the exact opposite. Continue to do as many side projects as ever, code on nights and weekends if you want too, but don’t think about how they could be useful to you to get a new job. Don’t do all the tutorials you find about Vue.js, but use this weird technology that you saw yesterday on Hacker News. Don’t think about what are the best blog post topics that could expand your personal branding, but write poetry or a review of the last movie you saw. Create the apps, services, websites, or video games you want to use. This may not make your portfolio or your public image convincing for the next recruiter you’ll meet, but this is how you will be able to express all that you have in you and end up affirming yourself. At least, you should end having something meaningful to show, something to be proud about."

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#160
post #107
post #28

> First, most recruiters don’t care about your personal projects or how many meetups you went during the... Why are you trying to impress recruiters? I mean, the entire point of the post is wrong, but impressing recruiters is downright stupid. Let's be frank: recruiters are bottom-of-the-totem-pole, lowest-common-denominator, bottom-feeders. If you aren't trying to do your own thing (which, let's face it, is the most…

I feel like this is one of those moments that shouts “Hacker News is not typical”. A lot of people are employed through recruiters, including for Facebook, Google and the rest! Aiming to impress the CEO is all very well, but it’s not common.

This comment should really be more towards the top of the chain so more people are aware that the grandparent comment is one of those "HN is atypical" moments. Many HN users like the grandparent are very disconnected from the reality that exists for everyone else, where plenty of people have to swim and trudge through the hellscape of recruiters who don't know or care that LINQ is a feature in C# and not a separate language but who will ultimately decide whether or not you're qualified. They have to be appeased like everyone else if the applicant doesn't have the luxury of an extended network of people they can casually ping and go "hey pal i'm back on the market hook me up :)"
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