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$1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

sciencemag.org

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Re: $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

#151

Post by criddell »

NonEUCitizen wrote: post #149
criddell wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't this question apply to every cheap Chinese product? The question is always valid but the answer isn't always the same. I'm thinking specifically of cheap eyeglasses.I've had nothing but good experiences buying glasses that cost 10-20% of what I would pay from a local store.

What's a good place for buying these cheap eyeglasses?

I've only used Zenni Optical. Their glasses start under $10 but different frames and different lenses can change the price.

My biggest complaint with Zenni is that shipping can sometimes be slow. I've waited 4 weeks for glasses to show up and other times it's only a week. I think it depends if they come from China or their US facility.

Re: $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

#152

Post by ChuckMcM »

tobtoh wrote: post #111
jiofih wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The new IOS14 feature where I can tailor the Airpod audio response to my hearing frequency loss is simply amazing! What feature is it? Can’t the same be achieved with EQ?

https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT211218 I'm not sure ... i was under the understanding the that EQ function on iOS only applied to music. I guess the other advantage is that audiogram function makes it a one-click accurate configuration of the 'EQ' based on a hearing test.

Wow, I wrote Apple and suggested they do exactly that. That this feature isn't part of the "introduction to your airpods" stuff is wrong. It should be!

Re: $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

#153

Post by pkaye »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #142
pkaye wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just got myself some Costco Signature hearing aids a month ago. Its $1499/pair. Its made by a major manufacturer named Phonak. The feature set is close to their top of the line model. Half the cost of the hearing aids in the US is actually the fitting by the audiologist and they have to pay for their expenses. You have to spend considerable time with the audiologist to measure, fit and calibrate the device to your…

Why are multiple audiologist visits necessary? Can’t they just take a 3d scan of your ear and have a computer decide which shape will fit best? I recall when Apple introduced the EarPods, they said they scanned thousands of ears and derived a shape that would fit the most. So it is possible...

I went with standard domes but it took a second visit to get the size right since they take time to conform to your ears. Custom molds are another option but they told it I would get a more plugged up feeling so I stay with a more open dome unless really needed. Also there is some time for adapting to any changes in settings. They also bump up the gain with each visit to reach target levels. A big jump might be too much.

I think there is room for optimizing the whole process but anything medical related tends to move slowly. I still find the phone app a little slow and cumbersome. And switching between bluetooth devices is a pain. I wish Apple and Google would put more effort in improving that aspect.

Re: $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

#154

Post by eyesee »

emcq wrote: post #103
Someone wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple already sells a hearing aid that they can’t legally call ‘hearing aid’. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209082 : “With Live Listen, your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch can act like a microphone that sends sound to your AirPods or Powerbeats Pro. Live Listen can help you hear a conversation in a noisy area or even hear someone speaking across the room.” It even supports hearing aids (a few? Some? Many? The most p…

Unfortunately live listen is more like a replacement for remote microphones, not the hearing aids themselves. It adds around 70ms latency with a bluetooth headset. This is enough to be very uncomfortable. For comparison, most hearing aids on the market today have around 8ms of end to end latency. Source: I've built a hearing aid and done extensive latency tests :)

I have a major hearing impairment in one ear. Using one AirPod with Live Listen was completely unusable to me because of this latency.

Re: $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

#155

Post by rexelhoff »

emcq wrote: post #125

The most accurate description is probably the authors built a hearing aid from the 1960s with only $1 today [0]. Its worn around the neck, doesn't have any fitting, doesn't appear to have beamforming or feedback management, and low amplification. It turns out these things are all important in clinical outcomes for listening comfort and intelligibility. I've built a modern hearing aid and done extensive patient testin…

This.

The other issue to contend with in his grandparents demographic is the perception of being deaf and being seen wearing such a big bulky item. Image consciousness is a large hurdle to overcome these

Great ingenuity but commercially it's hard to see it take traction

Re: $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

#156

Post by noisem4ker »

canada_dry wrote: post #121
wefarrell wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cochlear implants do not "restore hearing" but they do allow people who are completely deaf to sense sound well enough to understand speech. That's a huge change in a deaf person's life.

> to sense sound well enough My understanding is that it's like a low-sighted person being able to see contrasts and outlines of things. It's enough to differentiate things, but significantly less than the detail of regular ability.

There are several simulators on the Internet, so you can hear what it sounds like.

Re: $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

#157

Post by etse »

rini17 wrote: post #7

Hearing aids (nor cochlear implants, for that matter) do not "restore hearing", except for light hearing loss. They are only like crutches (not even wheelchair). For example, to follow conversations or phone/skype with multiple people is very exhausting even with fancy device, because in most cases the "bandwidth" to the brain just isn't available. That said, the hearing aids vendor lock-in is really atrocious and ca…

> That said, the hearing aids vendor lock-in is really atrocious and can use a disruption

Agreed about the disruption in this space.

> They don't like users configuring the aids themselves

I get the feeling most users don't want to configure the aids themselves, and even if they did, wouldn't feel comfortable doing it or don't have the ability or audiology knowledge needed.

Later on you mention how helping with hearing loss is not quick or straightforward, which seems to support that the default of encouraging sessions with an expert is right approach, at least to start.

Re: $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

#158

Post by pomatic »

jaclaz wrote: post #40
subhashp wrote: post #24

My mother has been wearing Hearing Aids for over 20 years. These days she has trouble with hearing what is on TV even with a powerful hearing aid. Most times she just sits quietly in front of the TV watching moving pictures. I have always wondered why it is so difficult to make hearing aid which can be connected to a bluetooth enabled TV or Mobile phone, so senior citizens can watch TV or talk to their loved one. Wha…

Well, my mom has one of those. They are actually two pieces, one is a match-box sized thingy that can connect to Bluetooth devices and that she wears around her neck that transmits to the devices in her ears and also has a microphone, it is very handy as she can easily answer the phone by pressing a button on it (leaving the telephone in the bag, it works as hand-free) and it also has two buttons that can regulate th…

They do come up on ebay - I got the tv link for my cochlear implant for £30. Yes, I was lucky. I assume it was a deceased estate sale, and I'm grateful for their consideration. A charity shop specialising in recycling of this kind of tech would fill a definite gap in the market.

Re: $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

#159

Post by pomatic »

GuB-42 wrote: post #65
ritchiea wrote: post #10

Too bad we live in the kind of world where the biggest hearing aid manufacturer will read this, raise additional capital, buy the patent & rights to the $1 hearing aid and then sell hearing aids for $5,000 each they'll bill to medicare and big health insurance co.

Patent this? This is just a microphone, an amplifier and a headphone jack. That's the most obvious thing. There is no real innovation here. The work being done here is closer to a market research: find the cheapest components that do the job. Cheap is also its only quality. $5000 hearing aids are better in every other aspect. It makes no sense for big hearing aid manufacturers to use anything about this design.

It does seem like a bit of a missed opportunity - even slipping in the most basic ots equaliser or dsp would add a minimal amount to the BOM, whilst moving from a late 70s format aid to late 80s, albeit in a dated form factor. (Chest worn isn't too terrible IME, but expect to replace the "wiring harness" to the earphones on a regular basis.)

Re: $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss

#160

Post by callalex »

TheRealSteel wrote: post #128
Someone wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recent smartphone has enough hardware for that, I would think, and if it hasn’t, but the idea made sense, it would be added. If the hardware can power a GPU and a million-pixel display, it can power quite a beefy DSP, too. I would worry about the latency of a round-trip over Bluetooth. Google search tells me it’s, optimistically, 100ms single-trip, so 200ms round trip ( https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/07/fix-soun…

Can anyone who knows about Bluetooth comment on why I can ping google in 50ms (wirelessly, even), but a Bluetooth round trip over a few centimetres takes 2 - 3X that?

Please don’t think of me as an expert, because the sum of my knowledge comes from browsing Wikipedia articles. But the summary of the issue is that Bluetooth gets all its energy efficiency and robustness by constantly scanning the spectrum it is to live in, and hopping around extremely fast to different slices of channels, essentially taking advantage of the tiny “gaps” in other signaling protocols that share the same free spectrum. In other words it operates on sloppy seconds/scraps like a vulture, which means it’s timing is very loose and cannot provide any guarantees. But it’s very low power as a result because it almost never has to shout over anyone else.
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