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UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

freespeechunion.org

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Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#151

Post by justanotheranon »

free speech should only be allowed for people to express Correct ideas. namely, ideas that i happen to agree with.

everyone else should not have the right to free speech, and if they do speak freely, then they are Fascists who deserve to be arrested, tried, convicted and shot.

sadly, while this sounds like hyperbole or sarcasm, this is exactly what a large percentage of people really do believe.

you can't have free speech when a near majority wants to abolish it. therefore, ot's already too late.

Free Speech RIP

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#152

Post by dane-pgp »

Hokusai wrote: post #57
justicezyx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a very unpopular ideal" I thought it is still very popular. But it just have very unpleasant experience when it was practiced according to its literal sense.

> But it just have very unpleasant experience when it was practiced according to its literal sense. "The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant."

There is nothing paradoxical about tolerating all speech but not tolerating any violence. (Both of those are extreme positions, though, which I don't necessarily advocate).

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#153

Post by dfxm12 »

whatshisface wrote: post #144
dfxm12 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you have "free speech" in scare quotes? What does having less of this ideal mean to you?

Having less freedom of speech is a pretty obvious idea, it means that there are fewer things that you are allowed to say or publish without retribution.

...and what if that retribution comes in the form of speech, which is likely?

It sounds like you're not worried about freedom of speech, but complete freedom from the consequences of your actions.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#154

Post by sebmellen »

crocodiletears wrote: post #102

Could somebody in the know explain what this would change with respect to free speech in the UK, outside of just taking things a little upstream? The country's government's already attempted to imprison a guy who taught a dog to perform the Nazi salute as a prank[0], sentenced a woman to community service for posting rap lyrics[1], visit your house for having the wrong opinions on the internet[2, 3, 4, 5]… So exactly…

The UK is a police state, and the ideal of free speech is certainly dead there (unless, perhaps, you're willing to share some unsavory views at a Madrasa) [0].

[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/10/islamist-ex...

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#155

Post by whatshisface »

dfxm12 wrote: post #153
whatshisface wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having less freedom of speech is a pretty obvious idea, it means that there are fewer things that you are allowed to say or publish without retribution.

...and what if that retribution comes in the form of speech, which is likely? It sounds like you're not worried about freedom of speech, but complete freedom from the consequences of your actions.

>what if that retribution comes in the form of speech, which is likely? It sounds like...

Don't read in what wasn't written - by retribution I meant in real terms like pain, danger, or economic ostracism.

>complete freedom from the consequences of your actions.

Someone in the pro-free-speech camp would not consider getting yelled at on Twitter to be a truly significant consequence. If they did, they would have to be open to the idea in having limits on extrajudicial twitter-flogging.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#156

Post by watwut »

whatshisface wrote: post #155
dfxm12 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and what if that retribution comes in the form of speech, which is likely? It sounds like you're not worried about freedom of speech, but complete freedom from the consequences of your actions.

> what if that retribution comes in the form of speech, which is likely? It sounds like... Don't read in what wasn't written - by retribution I meant in real terms like pain, danger, or economic ostracism. > complete freedom from the consequences of your actions. Someone in the pro-free-speech camp would not consider getting yelled at on Twitter to be a truly significant consequence. If they did, they would have to b…

By economoc ostracism you mean boycot? Cause that one used to be valid and speech just a few years ago.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#157

Post by watwut »

john_moscow wrote: post #44
umvi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem with freedom is that people abuse it and cause harm to others." Edit: (to be clear, I do not personally believe this, just offering a little insight as to how the "not insignificant majority" think)

I think, being offended at words is mostly a sign of one's own personal insecurity. Can you imagine a successful doctor or a business owner being seriously offended because someone on the Internet called them a bad word? I bet they would respond same way I do when my son calls me a "bad papa" for insisting he finishes lunch before getting a desert. The bigger, much bigger problem is the growing amount of people that…

> Can you imagine a successful doctor or a business owner being seriously offended because someone on the Internet called them a bad word?

Yes. Do you know any doctors or business owners? Cause both are often reacting quickly on what was said.

Always did. Quickly and severly reacting to offense and retaliating even used to be part of manhood. Not that it was good thing, it is good that guys dont duel over what was said.

But acting like offense is new concept is ridiculous.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#158

Post by Consultant32452 »

djohnston wrote: post #2

The last 5 years have really made question the benefits of free speech in our hyperconnected world. My knee jerk reaction to defend free speech has certainly been dampened by the efficacy of disinformation campaigns in the West.

The most dangerous disinformation campaigns are coming from the cathedral. They aren't the ones who will be silenced by restrictions on speech.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#159

Post by SllX »

commandlinefan wrote: post #4

What I’m becoming more painfully aware of with each passing year is that “free speech” is actually (sadly) a very unpopular ideal. We haven’t really had it in a long time, and we have less of it with each passing year - cheered on by a not insignificant majority.

Speech is never without a cost, but what the First Amendment does is it comes as close as law can get[1] to completely cutting any kind of prosecutorial slippery slope off at the kneecaps.

Don’t forget the context within which the First Amendment and similar laws exist: to blockade government authority to prosecute you because something you said was heretical, of a different political position than the government’s, or because you hurt someone’s feelings. You can still hurt someone’s feelings, it still has consequences, but our (American) legal regime is such that this is not an offense worthy of conviction.

[1] As close as law can get. I have learned over the years that invariably the very first response I receive, if any, will be one looking to poke holes in a perfectly sweeping statement I didn’t make because any and all nuance is overlooked and hedges ignored. Prosecutors can still abuse their authority in other ways, anyone in Government can, that’s why we put limitations on the SOBs in the first place. Any written (or unwritten for that matter) law you can conceive of, no matter how well written or conceived, has to face off against human ingenuity.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#160

Post by Consultant32452 »

jlokier wrote: post #147
Shared404 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not on this issue in Europe. > Many parties are even afraid of democracy by now. So they are afraid of the consequences of elections?

For the same reason that regular people are afraid of the consequences of elections. It's heartbreaking, and for some life-ruining, what awful things the other side[1] do when they get in. Democracy is no game. [1] for each individual's value of "other side".

"Democracy is people who run businesses well being forced to run businesses poorly by people who can't run businesses at all." ~ Michael Malice

Just extrapolate this principle to everything people vote on.

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