Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#151

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:07 PM UTC

koevet wrote: post #87

zhynn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it funny that fasting comes up so often, but a ctrl-f almost never turns up someone mentioning Ramadan. Nearly 25% of the world population fasts for an entire month, but it's almost invisible to the western world. While I don't agree with all of the details of the fast (I drink water), I think it is an admirable holiday, it's way healthier for the world than Christmas or Thanksgiving.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for two years and did Ramadan, out of not wanting to offend my Saudi colleagues who were fasting. As a practictioner of fasting, I don't think that "modern" Ramadan has much to do with fasting anymore - at least, in the way I see fasting working for me. Reason being that at the end of each day of fasting, there is a very large amount of food being consumed, and I mean a lot. Fasting is about c…

In France, from where I stand (I don't have close muslim friends), they also have large meals during the night.

I don't know if that was always the case in history of this religion, maybe in the past the night meal was simply a shared meal with the group, of normal size.

It seems that in your case and mine, we're seeing something that has more to do with symbolism and morals (no gluttony, more thoughtful days, sharing, empathy).

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#152

Post by shekharshan » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:08 PM UTC

yurishimo wrote: post #142

NewOrderNow wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started fasting every Monday for multiple reasons: reduce caloric intake, the recent studies on reduction of cancer growth (family history cancer and heart issues), and optimizing brain functions. What are some of the downsides to doing this?

Hello! Long time faster here (lost over 80lbs in about 9 months with basically zero exercise). One potential downside to steady regimented fasting _when combined_ with caloric restriction, is a decrease in your basal metabolic rate (BMR). Our bodies are very good at adapting to "the new normal" and will optimize itself to function on the fuel you give it. This is true in both directions. If you eat less, your body wi…

I fast regularly and have a 5-6 hour eating window. During that window I just cannot eat more than 1500 calories. If typical caloric reduction can trigger starvation type response in the body, why does it not happen when we reduce calories during fasting?

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#153

Post by voisin » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:09 PM UTC

If you read “Tripping over the Truth: The Metabolic Theory of Cancer”[0], the fundamentals of this are discussed quite extensively. Highly recommended for anyone interested in both fasting and cancer.

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23496164

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#154

Post by Delk » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

dasudasu wrote: post #92

nwienert wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never done the long term fasts, but my anecdotal experience also confirms this - I definitely have significantly less mental clarity on any type of fast I’ve done, to the point where it definitely affects my productivity even by end of day 1.

Myself as well. You just hit low blood sugar. Technically not fasting, but I have an appetite so weak I can skip meals easily and will do so if I don’t pay attention. Eventually I just feel very lethargic and enter what I can only conceive of as “starvation” or “energy conservation” mode. It’s not pleasant. I also have trouble with muscular mass being the first thing to go.

I'm pretty much that way, too.

I think I also just become more irritable if it's been too long since the last time I ate. It definitely doesn't seem to improve mental acuity for me, and any kind of physical activity is just going to feel worse. I've never tried any kind of a formal fast, though, so I don't know if there's something to planned schedules that makes it different.

I can kind of see how I might, under some circumstances, enter some kind of a state of quicker thinking after fasting, but I think it would be something similar to sleep deprivation, where you get perhaps a bit "hyper". That's not really a state I necessarily strive for either.

I've also never been overweight, and have always had more trouble gaining weight than getting rid of it. I wonder if that has something to do with it. I suppose the metabolism might be different if you've got some fat stores vs. if you're rather low-fat.

I can understand how fasting could e.g. have differential effects on cancer cells and thus be useful in specific circumstances. I also understand that people have rather different reactions, so I don't doubt that some people achieve some kind of a state that feels good or useful by fasting. But I don't really understand the hype, or calling it a panacea.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#155

Post by caymanjim » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

Cancer needs sugar. One of the primary ways they detect cancer is via a PET-CT with a radioactive glucose tracer. It lights up where glucose uptake is the highest. This article talks about starving cells going into defensive repair mode, but also about how energy-hungry cancer cells are.

I had cancer (lymphoma) and did three years of chemo (mostly maintenance/preventative, as it was wiped out in the first couple months). I actually gained an enormous amount of weight, because the steroids I was on (and all the weed I smoked) made me ravenously hungry. If I end up in that situation again, I'm going to make a concerted effort to dramatically reduce my calorie intake, and in particularly carbs, because I've read a lot about the potential benefits of starving the cancer out.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#156

Post by guerby » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

hanche wrote: post #144

me_me_me wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've gone as long as 12 days with nothing but water. This is dangerous and please don't encourage others to do only water fast. Pure water fast is dangerous beyond 4 days or so. You need to supplement minerals while on per-longed fast. Salt, magnesium and potassium are vital to regulatory processes in your body. When your body uses up all reserves it will not be able to sustain those processes. It is serious busine…

I remember reading about someone who fasted for an entire year . Of course he was morbidly obese when he started, he took supplements, and he was under strict medical supervision for the duration of the fast. (Sorry, don't remember the source.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri%27s_fast

"Starting in June 1965, Scottish man Angus Barbieri (1939 – 7 September 1990) fasted for 382 days. He lived on tea, coffee, soda water and vitamins, living at home in Tayport, Scotland, and frequently visiting Maryfield Hospital for medical evaluation. He lost 276 pounds (125 kg) and set a record for the length of a fast."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#157

Post by shekharshan » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

zhynn wrote: post #77

Cro_on wrote: post #10

If there were ever a panacea, it would be fasting. The more tight and widespread the research becomes, the more that we prove what humanity has known anecdotally throughout civilisation. From being a Roman cure for epileptic seizures, through the integral practice in most religions, and to the 21st century where we start to prove that it increases both healthspan and lifespan. I find it quite interesting that somethi…

I always find it funny that fasting comes up so often, but a ctrl-f almost never turns up someone mentioning Ramadan. Nearly 25% of the world population fasts for an entire month, but it's almost invisible to the western world. While I don't agree with all of the details of the fast (I drink water), I think it is an admirable holiday, it's way healthier for the world than Christmas or Thanksgiving.

@zhynn, Buddhists monks eat one meal a day throughout their lives. Even lay Buddhists who maintain 8 precepts do not eat after noon throughout their lives. As a practicing Buddhist I eat during a 4-5 hour window everyday of the year. Why make a big deal about one religion?

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#158

Post by bityard » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

yurishimo wrote: post #142

NewOrderNow wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started fasting every Monday for multiple reasons: reduce caloric intake, the recent studies on reduction of cancer growth (family history cancer and heart issues), and optimizing brain functions. What are some of the downsides to doing this?

Hello! Long time faster here (lost over 80lbs in about 9 months with basically zero exercise). One potential downside to steady regimented fasting _when combined_ with caloric restriction, is a decrease in your basal metabolic rate (BMR). Our bodies are very good at adapting to "the new normal" and will optimize itself to function on the fuel you give it. This is true in both directions. If you eat less, your body wi…

It sounds like we are both doing the same thing but through different means. I have been on a successful low-carb, high-fat diet for around 7 years now and will never go back to eating high-carb foods on a daily basis. I lost 45 pounds in the first 9 months with no exercise and have kept it off since. Although the weight loss was nice, it was not my main goal. I originally changed to a LCHF diet because I was tired of being constantly hungry and having my schedule and life dictated by food.

Fasting is one of the things that a lot of LCHF practitioners eventually gravitate towards because once your metabolism is used to burning fat, you're not hungry all the time and eating becomes optional. I typically eat two meals a day but sometimes one is more than enough.

I have tried fasting here and there but getting better at it is one of my goals. My main difficulty right now is easy access to food (being stuck working from home most days) and the social pressure of being the only one in the house who has committed to LCHF.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#159

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

caymanjim wrote: post #155

Cancer needs sugar. One of the primary ways they detect cancer is via a PET-CT with a radioactive glucose tracer. It lights up where glucose uptake is the highest. This article talks about starving cells going into defensive repair mode, but also about how energy-hungry cancer cells are. I had cancer (lymphoma) and did three years of chemo (mostly maintenance/preventative, as it was wiped out in the first couple mont…

A young biology researcher pitched in to explain the warburg factor in tumors, he made a long paragraph explaining the oh so twisted metabolysm of cancerous cells. The amount of counter intuitive disruptions that mechanically benefited the tumoral tissue was .. almost impressive.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#160

Post by faeyanpiraat » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #159

caymanjim wrote: post #155

Cancer needs sugar. One of the primary ways they detect cancer is via a PET-CT with a radioactive glucose tracer. It lights up where glucose uptake is the highest. This article talks about starving cells going into defensive repair mode, but also about how energy-hungry cancer cells are. I had cancer (lymphoma) and did three years of chemo (mostly maintenance/preventative, as it was wiped out in the first couple mont…

A young biology researcher pitched in to explain the warburg factor in tumors, he made a long paragraph explaining the oh so twisted metabolysm of cancerous cells. The amount of counter intuitive disruptions that mechanically benefited the tumoral tissue was .. almost impressive.

Could you give examples?