Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#151

Post by stock_toaster » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #38

oneplane wrote: post #20

Not sure why people are surprised or consider it giant news. > The court recommended that Epic follow the App Store’s guidelines and policies while the case is in progress – the rules they followed over the past ten years until they created the current situation themselves. Epic refused. Well duh, this is a show match court fight of Epic Games not liking the rules and not getting the special treatment they want. No m…

people familiar with Tim Sweeny’s life and ideology know that it is an actual important issues to him that platforms be open. your cynical take is often very true but there are sometimes real human ideals behind things.

> people familiar with Tim Sweeny’s life and ideology know that it is an actual important issues to him that platforms be open.

I get that, but I admit to finding it hard to square with his statements[1] that he is fine with game consoles not being open. Seems a strange dichotomy.

[1]: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oglnAi...

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#152

Post by racl101 » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

Epic Games and Facebook will start a cabal of companies who hate Apple soon.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#153

Post by IncRnd » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

hnarayanan wrote: post #30

leptoniscool wrote: post #24

Apple is a monopoly. When Microsoft was investigated and fined for anti-trust behaviors, it hasn't engaged in this level of abuse.

In what metric is Apple a monopoly?

Apple is a monopoly that controls what applications can run on iPhones. Being a monopoly is not illegal in the US. What is illegal is for a monopoly to engage in predatory practices, which Apple clearly does.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#154

Post by actuator » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:10 PM UTC

nojito wrote: post #108

Voliokis wrote: post #91

What in god's name is with all the bootlickers in this thread? I have no love for Apple or Epic. But if this lawsuit leads to better treatment of third-party developers on the platform and Apple not being able to arbitrarily control what apps consumers get to download, I don't see why Epic is being painted as the "bad guy" by so many people here. Apple has been behaving in crazy anti-competitive ways (just look at ho…

They built the platform. They maintain the platform. They promote the platform. What's arbitrary about that?

They control the distribution channels of a general computing platform at their whim.

They push their own services like Apple Music by having pre installed apps, free app store placement, not having to pay the 30% cut over other competitors like Spotify. In a low margin business that is live or die.

They force a browser like Firefox to not have its own engine as well.

Looks quite anti competitive to me.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#155

Post by justicezyx » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:10 PM UTC

nojito wrote: post #108

Voliokis wrote: post #91

What in god's name is with all the bootlickers in this thread? I have no love for Apple or Epic. But if this lawsuit leads to better treatment of third-party developers on the platform and Apple not being able to arbitrarily control what apps consumers get to download, I don't see why Epic is being painted as the "bad guy" by so many people here. Apple has been behaving in crazy anti-competitive ways (just look at ho…

They built the platform. They maintain the platform. They promote the platform. What's arbitrary about that?

No, apple but the platform in the literal sense.

The platform was built by every consumer, app devs, hardware vendors, and many others.

These players of the platform voluntarily cooperate with apple, and allow apple the oversized power, because the economic values of doing that is higher than other behaviors.

There isn't a moral high ground for apple, nor a particularly outsized contribution by apple considering their profit from the platform.

What you said is so superficial that it does not even refer to the right topic.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#156

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:10 PM UTC

oneplane wrote: post #20

Not sure why people are surprised or consider it giant news. > The court recommended that Epic follow the App Store’s guidelines and policies while the case is in progress – the rules they followed over the past ten years until they created the current situation themselves. Epic refused. Well duh, this is a show match court fight of Epic Games not liking the rules and not getting the special treatment they want. No m…

I know it's very fashionable on Twitter to say the word "post-capitalism," but how is Epic in any way operating in a post-capitalist environment? They face heavy, almost capitalist-ideal levels of competition in every market where they compete.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#157

Post by DetroitThrow » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:10 PM UTC

eganist wrote: post #125

nojito wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They built the platform. They maintain the platform. They promote the platform. What's arbitrary about that?

They're leveraging their control of a defacto standard platform to steer business. Android existing doesn't invalidate this claim.

Exactly: a market duopoly doesn't mean they don't have disproportionate control over consumer choices especially when there are feature and ecosystem differences between the platforms.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#158

Post by yyyk » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #128

yyyk wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's irrelevant whether Apple are technically a monopoly or not; Apple abuses their iOS market power to force vendors to use their payment system.

That... rather shifts the goalposts, no?

No. Antitrust law doesn't apply to monopolies alone, and the requirement to use Apple's payment system is a key part of Epic's complaint.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#159

Post by gsich » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #150

rsweeney21 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PAYING game developers for exclusivity is much different than CHARGING game developers 30% of their revenue. Also, the PC is an open platform. Game developers don't have to use Epic's or anyone else' store to distribute games on PC. With iOS you have no choice.

> PAYING game developers for exclusivity is much different than CHARGING game developers 30% of their revenue. It definitely is - one store, Epic, offers deals publishers can't refuse to make a game exclusive to their storefront which limits a consumer's ability to use a platform of their choice to purchase a game. The other, steam, puts no limits on where you can distribute your game (unless you use assets from Valv…

Can't refuse? Is this the Godfather now?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#160

Post by librish » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

Can someone who's on Apple's side here elaborate on why they think the outcome for consumers would be worse if they're forced to loosen some of their restrictions?

It's very unlikely that app developers choose to forgo the AppStore since it will be driving the majority of app installs even in a completely open world for years to come. And if they do choose to forgo that distribution channel that should be seen as a very strong signal of how unhappy developers are with the current policies. So if you want to just keep doing what you've been doing and just use the AppStore not much should change, but at least now there's the possibility of competition.