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Asana S-1

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Re: Asana S-1

#151
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making the mistake of valuing this IPO on its fundamentals while currently the market is largely being driven by liquidity. It's really hard to have a failed tech IPO at the moment with all the demand which is why they're all rushing the gates. It'll take a large, broad recession to bring tech stocks back down I'd expect Asana, Unity, Sumo and Snowflake to all pop and stay up in the short term I'd add AirBNB t…

We are currently in a large, broad recession. Unemployment is at 10%.

We were. It's doubtful that we still are. GDP growth has clearly popped back above negative for the third quarter, which will break the two quarters technical requirement. Most economic readings right now are strong, from manufacturing to retail to job creation.

It's more like we're in the equivalent of the first or second inning of the post great recession recovery now.

This recession isn't broad, it's unusual in its disjointed hit. It's primarily hammering lower income labor and specific types of small businesses. 40% of low income households lost jobs just in the March and April shutdown. That's where most of the job damage was at:

CNBC "Households with income below $40,000 were hit hardest by the coronavirus pandemic. Almost 40% were laid off or furloughed by early April, according to the Federal Reserve."

Jobs in the top 2/3 have largely been unscathed, which is why the broad housing market continues humming along in most regards (whereas housing got smashed in every way in the great recession). It's also why hiring has been so ferocious and unemployment has recovered dramatically faster than during the great recession; it's specifically because the context isn't all encompassing. The great recession didn't spare the middle class and higher income groups nearly so much, it was a very broad recession.

Which all makes sense, this wasn't a normal recession, it was a temporary forced shutdown of some parts of the economy due to a pandemic (further, not all of the economy was shuttered during the second quarter, the majority of the economy kept functioning throughout the pandemic).

Re: Asana S-1

#152
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always a comment here on HN wondering why company X has so many engineers for such a seemingly simple product. The answer is, unsurprisingly, not that they're terribly inefficient. Rather it's that running a popular service at scale is hard, the long tail of features is really a long tail, and a lot of effort goes into even simple things because small differences really add up when multiplied by large N.

Except for the part where even if you ignore the sales and marketing expenses they're barely breaking even. They're failing to make software for less than they can sell it for, and perhaps some of those hard problems which took 50 engineers to solve would have been better to have gone unsolved even if they lost some sales as a result.

That's normal in a SaaS. They gear everything towards growth in revenue, not necessarily profit, since it's much easier to keep existing SaaS customers (most good SaaS have 95+% retention) than to earn new ones, and at a certain point you've got a flywheel going so that you can perhaps reduce headcount increases or stay flat while your revenue continues to grow, and then you coast into profitability from there.

Re: Asana S-1

#153
post #98
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't believe that was an actual quote from the article until I read it. It sounds like a joke and I can't imagine anyone reasonable would say that. There are definitely good reasons to build your own framework but performant and stable applications isn't one of them. Usually it's a solution looking for a problem.

In fairness the decision was made in 2009. I still don’t think it was the right decision but it feels a lot more understandable to have made that choice when looking at the frameworks available in 09 rather than 2020.

Was this a front end web framework or back end?

Re: Asana S-1

#154
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only labor I exploit is my own.

my guess is that a detailed account of the consumer goods you have purchased - including possibly the device upon which you typed out and submitted this comment to this web property - would indicate otherwise

you criticize society yet you participate in society! how curious!

Re: Asana S-1

#155

Wow, this is a torrent of IPOs today. Investors / boards are wanting to get money out before things turn south I feel. Aside from that, I'm surprised how much it costs Asana on engineering R&D, for essentially a ticket management system. How does a team grow to ~300+ developers ($89M R&D) to figure out how to attach PDFs and videos to tickets, and email people when there's a change in status? (ok yes I'm oversimplify…

Related - why are there so many IPOs particularly right now?

It seems like there is more than usual IPOs this August compared to previous years: https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/ipos

Re: Asana S-1

#156

Wow, this is a torrent of IPOs today. Investors / boards are wanting to get money out before things turn south I feel. Aside from that, I'm surprised how much it costs Asana on engineering R&D, for essentially a ticket management system. How does a team grow to ~300+ developers ($89M R&D) to figure out how to attach PDFs and videos to tickets, and email people when there's a change in status? (ok yes I'm oversimplify…

I think at least part of the motivation to IPO is that if the US has a new president starting 2021, said person has stated his intent to vastly increase capital gains taxes, probably starting with tax year 2021. Add to that increased corporate tax (which probably affects VCs' math, although I'm not sure how), there's probably a lot of people who would prefer to accelerate their taxable events.

Any IPO at this point (combined with standard 6 month lockout) will result in capital gains being realized no earlier than 2021.

Re: Asana S-1

#157

Wow, this is a torrent of IPOs today. Investors / boards are wanting to get money out before things turn south I feel. Aside from that, I'm surprised how much it costs Asana on engineering R&D, for essentially a ticket management system. How does a team grow to ~300+ developers ($89M R&D) to figure out how to attach PDFs and videos to tickets, and email people when there's a change in status? (ok yes I'm oversimplify…

Related - why are there so many IPOs particularly right now? It seems like there is more than usual IPOs this August compared to previous years: https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/ipos

How about the government stimulus has ended, the economy is in horrible shape, and people are just waiting for the economic crash...

Re: Asana S-1

#158

Wow, this is a torrent of IPOs today. Investors / boards are wanting to get money out before things turn south I feel. Aside from that, I'm surprised how much it costs Asana on engineering R&D, for essentially a ticket management system. How does a team grow to ~300+ developers ($89M R&D) to figure out how to attach PDFs and videos to tickets, and email people when there's a change in status? (ok yes I'm oversimplify…

wait and hear, all the justifications around hn that they need 300 engineers. when their competitor basecamp has around 50 engineers. only difference is one is vc funded + dustin's fb funds, while basecamp is bootstrapped. and a lot of sv hype in terms of the tools they use to build asana. basecamp html + sprinkles of js. asana react + redux. on the backend asana 100s of microservices, basecamp 1 monolith. reading the comments, based on experience at fb | google they made their own language. if that's not peak sv shoot me!!

Re: Asana S-1

#159

Wow, this is a torrent of IPOs today. Investors / boards are wanting to get money out before things turn south I feel. Aside from that, I'm surprised how much it costs Asana on engineering R&D, for essentially a ticket management system. How does a team grow to ~300+ developers ($89M R&D) to figure out how to attach PDFs and videos to tickets, and email people when there's a change in status? (ok yes I'm oversimplify…

Related - why are there so many IPOs particularly right now? It seems like there is more than usual IPOs this August compared to previous years: https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/ipos

There are a few more coming, too.

My armchair guess would be, this is a win win market. Its booming, so you can ride it as it goes up. And if you don't do well, you can blame COVID. A lot of companies were on the cusp and this probably accelerates them all.

Re: Asana S-1

#160
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you're oversimplifying a lot. Just security and infrastructure operating at Asana's scale requires several dozen engineers. Additionally, Asana has been developing all sorts of features around working with "tickets" - Gantt charts, automation, 3rd party APIs, mobile apps, etc. All of this while working with a large legacy codebase that makes development slow. (Note: I worked at Asana when it was ~100-150 engineer…

that relay rebuild tho

Believe me, changing / writing queries ("projections" in Asana parlance) at Asana took longer.
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