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Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

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Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#151

Post by Polylactic_acid »

harikb wrote: post #82
sushshshsh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a real believer in right to repair. But I wonder, if we are unable to achieve legislative results, what can be done to build hardware on open standards?

People have tried and failed. https://www.theverge.com/2016/9/2/12775922/google-project-ar... I think there is no money in letting people repair and upgrade components.

That was a dumb idea to begin with. We don't need phones that work like lego. Just reverting to how phones worked 5 years ago would be a massive improvement. For almost all users all they will ever need to do is replace the battery. We used to be able to replace the battery with no tools or skills and the screen was pretty easy if you had some skill at all.

The problem we face now is that the user can't fix anything at all, repair stores can fix things with great difficulty but they can't get new parts, and apple themselves can't even fix most things because the individual parts can't even be replaced on their own without replacing the whole thing. (The macbook keyboard which was prone to fail was attached with 50 rivets)

All we need is user replaceable batteries, and for service centres to have access to all the parts they need. Lewis rossman can't get access to a chip that was >$1 on the old macbooks and is prone to fail. The newer version of the chip is impossible to source meaning those macbooks either get binned or pay apple for a whole new mobo which costs more than the laptop is worth.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#152

Post by Polylactic_acid »

egsmi wrote: post #102
sinak wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Apple trying to avoid real Right to Repair legislation by taking actions that look like they support independent repair. Consider taking a moment to donate to https://repair.org/ - we're pushing to get Right to Repair laws passed in state legislatures across the US.

I actually do support the right to repair. I even donated at the link you provided. But, as a hardware designer myself, the devil is in the details for something like this and people need to be really careful. https://repair.org/policy "Unlocking: Legalize unlocking, adapting, and modifying any part of the machine, including software." The backdoor tools the FBI is asking for could easily fall into that category. I'm…

The trivial solution to this is you have to unlock the bootloader/etc via a command/option which is only available on an unlocked device.

This is how google phones work. You can flash whatever you want when the bootloader is unlocked but it is locked by default and can only be unlocked while the phone is unlocked.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#153

Post by Polylactic_acid »

chromedev wrote: post #46
formerly_proven wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This level of customer-hostility would cause a huge uproar for any other "Pro" or "workstation" vendor.

Apple fans seem okay with this and also not being able to install apps outside the app store.

Its usually less that they are ok with these problems and more that the alternatives have even more problems. Most OEMs copied apples designs so everything is shit. Rather than taking your laptop to the local apple store you now have to send it off to china and face all the same problems.

Windows also isn't useful for productivity and linux is only viable for certain jobs.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#154

Post by fomine3 »

abawany wrote: post #9
rasz wrote: post #2

Just as a reminder, their phone "independent repair program" has you signing rights to your business away (you are forced to let apple audit you at any time, you have to share personal client data on all of your clients with apple. All of this not limited to Apple repair part of your business) for the right to: - remove battery / screen from client device - send battery / screen to Apple with all clients personal inf…

IME, they've really hobbled the functionality of independent repair shops, making it necessary to supplicate to the Apple Store. I was trying to get the battery replaced in a 2015 MBP and the independent shops were 'required' to keep my machine for about 7 days since they had to first 'diagnose' that the battery was dying, order it, wait for it to arrive, and then replace it. In contrast, one could make an appointmen…

It's fine if an Apple Store is near my home. I prefer such service but also right of self repair.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#156

Post by richthegeek »

slavik81 wrote: post #141
somehnguy wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have also done it yourself in about 15 minutes. I've done my 2015 MBP twice now, it's not hard at all. I'm not sure why people in tech bother paying inflated prices for easy repairs. Just because you work with software doesn't mean you have to be afraid to turn a screwdriver ;)

The iFixit guide for battery replacement on the mid-2015 MBP [1] is a 74 step process involving the use of a nasty chemical solvent to remove the glue that holds the battery. You must have found some enormous shortcuts to have replaced your battery in 15 minutes! I'm quite comfortable opening most electronics, but my MBP is one of the few I would hire a professional to handle. [1]: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBoo…

The late 2015 model is, relative to the mid-2015, much simpler. Only removing a few ribbon cables and prying the old battery out (heat and fishing wire works ok, I didn't need solvent).

It was more like 30 minutes for me, but maybe if I need to do it again it'll be quicker.

All this was neccesary because I'm in Poland which doesn't have 1st-party Apple stores and none of the AASP would touch it.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#157

Post by kiba »

creato wrote: post #116
sushshshsh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a real believer in right to repair. But I wonder, if we are unable to achieve legislative results, what can be done to build hardware on open standards?

It just isn't something most people buying electronics care about, and there are real tradeoffs with size, weight, and aesthetic design choices. Combine those factors, and it's easy to see why the economics don't work. Making your device easily serviceable makes it more attractive to a tiny segment of the market, while making it less attractive to a much bigger segment.

There's a difference between intentionally making a device harder to repair and making design tradeoff to satisfy certain consumer preference.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#158

Post by richrichardsson »

munk-a wrote: post #143
creato wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just isn't something most people buying electronics care about, and there are real tradeoffs with size, weight, and aesthetic design choices. Combine those factors, and it's easy to see why the economics don't work. Making your device easily serviceable makes it more attractive to a tiny segment of the market, while making it less attractive to a much bigger segment.

I disagree that making your device easily serviceable necessarily makes it less attractive to that portion of the population. I think that making your device brittle, fragile and easy to tamper with makes it less attractive to that portion of the population - having open documentation about the ways to approach repair and then letting the electronics repair shops all be able to repair your device makes it really attr…

I think the point was that making it easier to repair will compromise something like device size or weight, making it less attractive to the larger portion of the population.

If they could provide the same form factor and make it easily repairable, then I think you would be right that would be attractive to all, however I think small size and repairability are mutually exclusive properties.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#159

Post by eirini1 »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #151
harikb wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have tried and failed. https://www.theverge.com/2016/9/2/12775922/google-project-ar... I think there is no money in letting people repair and upgrade components.

That was a dumb idea to begin with. We don't need phones that work like lego. Just reverting to how phones worked 5 years ago would be a massive improvement. For almost all users all they will ever need to do is replace the battery. We used to be able to replace the battery with no tools or skills and the screen was pretty easy if you had some skill at all. The problem we face now is that the user can't fix anything…

For real, all I want is for us to go back to the time where you could pop off the back cover of your phone by at worst unscrewing some screws, and the easily replace the battery.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#160

Post by phh »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #151
harikb wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have tried and failed. https://www.theverge.com/2016/9/2/12775922/google-project-ar... I think there is no money in letting people repair and upgrade components.

That was a dumb idea to begin with. We don't need phones that work like lego. Just reverting to how phones worked 5 years ago would be a massive improvement. For almost all users all they will ever need to do is replace the battery. We used to be able to replace the battery with no tools or skills and the screen was pretty easy if you had some skill at all. The problem we face now is that the user can't fix anything…

Then you could vote with your wallet and take a Fairphone :-)
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