Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#151

Post by dexen » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

lordleft wrote: post #6

Imagine if Microsoft did this on PCs. a) prohibiting the installation of non-windows store software (sideloading) and b) insisting that all purchases done via apps give them a 30% cut. I think this is a ridiculous practice on the behalf of Apple.

This is also a security vulnerability: one decision by Apple, or by a court of law in a far-away country, and an app is gone from your phone. You lose access to the data held by this app.

Easy, reliably DoS -- and the user has no means of fixing this vulnerability, other than rooting the phone and hacking around. Which is made ever less feasible.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#152

Post by cableshaft » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

rndmze wrote: post #101

finger crossed. Fortnite is not really the hill I have seen this battle take place. For example Apple also rejected the satirical app of a Pulitzer winning journalist (it does not make their app good but suggests that the content was probably not just a fart joke). Still, people should be able to install whatever they want on their phones, without Apple playing walled garden. It is not good for devs getting squeezed…

Epic has the massive financial war chest to see this through, though. If anyone can afford to push this through the legal process, it's Epic.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#153

Post by racl101 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

andreasley wrote: post #56

Epic Games has filed a lawsuit [1] and published a Fortnite-themed parody of Apple's "1984" [2] to get some publicity for it. [1] https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euiSHuaw6Q4

Tim Apple Goldstein.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#154

Post by gsich » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #121

Jellyd wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who else is apple competing with to put apps on iphones? Compared to android where you have indy devs, samsung store, play store, or any other store; it's a clear monopoly.

There isn't an iPhone industry, there's a smartphone industry, and Apple (despite all their profits) only controls a small portion of that business. Their strategy also adds a lot of consumer value. I use an iPhone specifically because I understand the tradeoffs between freedom and reliability/security, and I go for the reliability/security. Not everyone wants a second job playing sysadmin on their smartphone.

That's not the point though. Apple wants 30% regardless of what service you offer. While it's understandable (to a degree) for the app itself, it's not for something you purchase in the app.

Fortnite money has nothing to do with Apple. If they would only charge the processing fee and whatnot there would be no debate. Compare it to paying Apple for subscribing to Netflix/Spotify/Amazon. What is their accomplishment in this case?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#155

Post by koyote » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

coldcode wrote: post #83

ProAm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's device is it? Apple's or the customer that paid for it in full?

The device may be yours but the App Store belongs to Apple. Can you walk into a Walmart and start selling your stuff?

If I buy a fridge from Walmart I can still put groceries that I bought from another store in it.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#156

Post by Spooky23 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 9:30 PM UTC

reissbaker wrote: post #62

eggbrain wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, couldn't we just replace Microsoft->Sony and PC->Playstation and the argument falls apart a bit? > Imagine if Sony did this on Playstation. a) prohibiting the installation of non-PlayStation games and b) insisting that all purchases done via their store give them a 30% cut. Many platforms are like this -- and many also have the majority marketshare. Is this a call to redefine what platforms can and cannot con…

FWIW, actually Sony doesn't demand a 30% cut of all revenue from any company that makes an app for their store. You can have subscriptions to non-Sony services, and Sony doesn't see a dime. Sony doesn't demand a cut of Netflix subscriptions, for example, despite having a Netflix app available for download. Similarly, it doesn't get a cut of Spotify revenue either. For PlayStation you pay the Sony tax for the convenie…

Sony abuses customers directly. No multiplayer without buying some dopey service, weird cross platform restrictions, etc.

Apple wields it’s power indirectly, leading to the AppCasino and lousy UX.

Google pulls you in and monetizes you.

All of these companies do similar things in different ways.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#157

Post by Spivak » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #10

sushshshsh wrote: post #5

What happened to the days where everyone controlled their own domains/IP addresses/servers? Why would anyone want to risk being deplatformed? I trust ICANN more than I trust Apple and ${CLOUD_PROVIDER}

In this case they have no choice. If you want to sell applications that run on Apple devices, you must sell them on Apple's store. Doesn't matter where they host their software and servers. There is no historical mainstream analog since desktop/laptop OS software has never been so locked-down that it was impossible to install software without 1st-party permission. Even early videogame consoles had unlicensed games ru…

I feel like making Apple devices and Apple's store seem like two separate things doesn't really make sense. The whole entire phone top to bottom is Apple's store. The "App Store" is just a pretty downloader.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#158

Post by cordite » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

andreasley wrote: post #56

Epic Games has filed a lawsuit [1] and published a Fortnite-themed parody of Apple's "1984" [2] to get some publicity for it. [1] https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euiSHuaw6Q4

Wow looks like they came prepared.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#159

Post by Spivak » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #9

nip180 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would anyone want to risk being deplatformed? App stores give you incredible access to new users. You literally don’t have a way to get unto iOS devices w/o the App Store.

> App stores give you incredible access to new users. You literally don’t have a way to get unto iOS devices w/o the App Store. They give you "incredible access" because they're basically the only access. Their OSes would be complete flops if app stores were the only option and nobody would use them...

The "incredible" part is the access to Apple customer base.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#160

Post by dpiers » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

the-pigeon wrote: post #105

bluedevil2k wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TOS can't violate laws though. A contract that is in violation of the law isn't enforceable. Epic is looking for a judgement to make it illegal.

Expanding on this. The idea that a large platform like iOS can only have apps loaded through a market place controlled by the hardware manufactured is clearly in violation of the spirit of anti-trust laws. However there's no legal precedent on this because no one with deep enough pockets to fight Apple has been angry enough to do it yet. Meaning this could be great news for everyone if this goes to court and Apple lo…

I don't think that's true. Almost no one is complaining about Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo's "monopolies" on what software runs on their video game consoles.

The big differentiator is that phones have become the most frequently used personal computing device for many people, and we expect the freedom to use it how we want.