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TikTok and the Sorting Hat

eugenewei.com

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Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#151

Post by [deleted] »

sandworm101 wrote: post #47
chvid wrote: post #7

TikTok really is next-generation social media. Interesting that this should come out of China and not the west. Maybe we are seeing the effect of monopolies stifling innovation.

>> the effect of monopolies stifling innovation. Less monopolies, more so western culture. Many of TikTok's algorithms would be subject to great scrutiny if run by a western company. YouTube would face riots if it were caught openly supressing or hiding videos of disabled, unattractive, or simply poor people. But such "innovation" is fine for a Chinese company. https://slate.com/technology/2019/12/tiktok-disabled-use…

[deleted]

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#152

Post by ipsum2 »

Firebrand wrote: post #34

>At the time Musical.ly got renamed TikTok, it was still dominated by teen girls doing lip synch videos. Many U.S. teens at the time described TikTok as “cringey,” usually a kiss of death for networks looking to expand among youths, fickle as they are about what’s cool. Scrolling the app at the time felt like eavesdropping on the theater kids clique from high school. Entertaining, but hardly a mainstream entertainmen…

Interestingly, the subreddit r/TiktokCringe is the same - was made to make fun of TikTok, but now highlights Redditors favorite videos.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#153

Post by 7786655 »

quicklime wrote: post #70
sandworm101 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> the effect of monopolies stifling innovation. Less monopolies, more so western culture. Many of TikTok's algorithms would be subject to great scrutiny if run by a western company. YouTube would face riots if it were caught openly supressing or hiding videos of disabled, unattractive, or simply poor people. But such "innovation" is fine for a Chinese company. https://slate.com/technology/2019/12/tiktok-disabled-use…

I feel like as of late, when China sees some success that the US does not, there’s a sentiment that they succeeded only because they’re a lesser society. They have fewer coronavirus cases only because Chinese people are docile, obedient sheeple who hate freedom, or TikTok succeeded because Chinese corporations are happy to discriminate against groups that western corporations would obviously protect out of the goodne…

I don't thing the things GP is talking about are indicators of a lesser society. I don't want to look at unattractive people, and there is nothing wrong with a social media service optimizing for that preference.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#154

Post by TheDong »

7786655 wrote: post #153
quicklime wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like as of late, when China sees some success that the US does not, there’s a sentiment that they succeeded only because they’re a lesser society. They have fewer coronavirus cases only because Chinese people are docile, obedient sheeple who hate freedom, or TikTok succeeded because Chinese corporations are happy to discriminate against groups that western corporations would obviously protect out of the goodne…

I don't thing the things GP is talking about are indicators of a lesser society. I don't want to look at unattractive people, and there is nothing wrong with a social media service optimizing for that preference.

> there is nothing wrong with a social media service optimizing for that preference

I think there is. The world has already reached a point where we live in information bubble, surrounded by things we want to see and that agree with us. People are depressed and feel inadequate.

Formerly reputable news sources have realized that people don't want to be informed, they want to be outraged, or feel smug and correct, or see pictures of cats, and so real news is relegated to a lesser status.

I would much rather websites present me with the truth, even if I don't like it as much, than live my life seeing only attractive people and reading only good news, but ending up woefully depressed and un-informed, with feelings of inadequacy and no understanding of what in the world is broken.

I think news agencies have a responsibility to society to present news accurately, even if people find the news less pleasent to read than pictures of cats.

Similarly, I think social media companies have a duty to present a semi-accurate view of society where possible. I would rather have a realistic view of what people look like than have a series of recommendation algorithms and feedback loops result in me seeing only "conventionally attractive" people.

Of course, we've kinda already screwed ourselves here with hollywood/tv/movies. Perhaps it's too late to step back.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#155

Post by aniro »

strombofulous wrote: post #147
egypturnash wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flickr: initially an image management/sharing tool for a 2d online game. Cut the game, kept the image sharing. Slack: initially an internal communication tool for another incarnation of the same game. Cut the game, kept the chat. (An incarnation of this game did briefly exist between these two, but only lasted about a year.)

What was the game called?

Glitch.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#156

Post by tmabraham »

Very interesting read about why TikTok is succeeding. It makes me more curious about how the TikTok curation algorithm works!

I appreciate the comparison of TikTok to other social networks like Facebook and Twitter, but I am surprised there is no discussion about Reddit? Reddit is interesting in that people have to follow topics/communities in the form of subreddits, so it only works if the user puts in the effort to find communities to subscribe to. Maybe Reddit could also benefit from a better curation algorithm.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#157

Post by Ericson2314 »

chvid wrote: post #21
rollinggoron wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this very similar to Vine, the old video social network? Which Twitter bought and properly crash a burned?

The point is not media format (short video clips) but the "sorting hat". That it breaks the traditional social media model with a news feed, discussions, a social graph of friends. I think it is completely meaningful to call it next generation (or second generation where the social graph model is the first generation). Also notice that this model can be applied to other media formats: Text, pictures, audio ...

Did Vine not work that way? I have no idea and the author didn't say either.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#158

Post by rdiddly »

quicklime wrote: post #70
sandworm101 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> the effect of monopolies stifling innovation. Less monopolies, more so western culture. Many of TikTok's algorithms would be subject to great scrutiny if run by a western company. YouTube would face riots if it were caught openly supressing or hiding videos of disabled, unattractive, or simply poor people. But such "innovation" is fine for a Chinese company. https://slate.com/technology/2019/12/tiktok-disabled-use…

I feel like as of late, when China sees some success that the US does not, there’s a sentiment that they succeeded only because they’re a lesser society. They have fewer coronavirus cases only because Chinese people are docile, obedient sheeple who hate freedom, or TikTok succeeded because Chinese corporations are happy to discriminate against groups that western corporations would obviously protect out of the goodne…

I'm not the GP and therefore I'm not 100% sure the idea of Western social-justice mobs stifling innovation was intended as a compliment to the West.

Anyway if anyone takes anything at all from this, it's the idea that the whole source of TikTok's success is in making culture (and therefore culture wars) irrelevant. Want to look at videos of disabled, unattractive, poor people all day? Have at. Not being flippant there, although now that I think about it, I bet there are vast differences between some people's publicly-espoused views and their own watching habits, were they ever revealed by TikTok's algorithm.

Edit: Went off on all sorts of tangents, but yes I totally agree with your point. In Trump-era America even success & failure fall into the fact-free zone.

We succeed: Of course! We're awesome! So proud!

We fail: It wasn't fair! Everybody had it out for us!

They succeed: Bunch of cheaters! We took the high road!

They fail: Of course! We're just too awesome for 'em! Better luck next time!

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#159

Post by Ericson2314 »

zerowangtwo wrote: post #136
lotsofpulp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will showing people short video clips to create a drug like drip of enjoyable chemical reactions in the brain progress the species? > (and yes, one feed that contained the thirst trap photos of attractive Indian girls in rather suggestive outfits standing under things like waterfalls; some parts of culture are universal). Doesn’t sound like any version of progress that I would get excited about.

What's the long term end goal for society? I think one feature of such a society would be unlimited entertainment available for anyone, which TikTok provides.

I think with most work automated away humans should mostly entertain themselves in person. Art should be increasing interactive as everyone has time to level up beyond passive audience.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#160

Post by tmpz22 »

Firebrand wrote: post #34

>At the time Musical.ly got renamed TikTok, it was still dominated by teen girls doing lip synch videos. Many U.S. teens at the time described TikTok as “cringey,” usually a kiss of death for networks looking to expand among youths, fickle as they are about what’s cool. Scrolling the app at the time felt like eavesdropping on the theater kids clique from high school. Entertaining, but hardly a mainstream entertainmen…

From the outside looking in a lot of their success came from sexualizing (underage) teenage girls. Don't know if that would've flown as well if the app had come out of Facebook or a different American tech giant.
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