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Thomas Sowell interview

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Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#151

Post by wry_discontent »

ardy42 wrote: post #141
alexarnesen wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you recommended the heavy work, not just the propaganda pamphlet - good. I haven't read Das Kapital and I should. However... My question: an oft repeated refrain, when Marx is touted as a reasonable alternative, is that any time anyone tried his ideas out, it was a total disaster (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Chavez). I have watched some Wolff on Youtube, as well as other lectures on Marxism, because I'm interested an…

> My question: an oft repeated refrain, when Marx is touted as a reasonable alternative, is that any time anyone tried his ideas out, it was a total disaster (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Chavez). I've not read Marx, nor am I a Marxist, but my understanding is that most of his work is a diagnosis of a problem, not a plan for a cure. IIRC, Marx's own "plan" was basically more capitalism harder until it collapses and somethin…

That's correct. Most of the implementations of Marx's ideas are heavily derived through Lenin, who wrote more thoroughly about how to actually run a post-capitalist society and what would/wouldn't work.

Just to note, also, Chavez is the only person in that list who wasn't a Marxist-Leninist, and it's not helpful to understanding to include him in that list.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#152

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #64
amachefe wrote: post #3

In this time of ultra conformism and cancel culture. It is refreshing to read an articulate alternative view points. Sowell has an experience of with sides of the debate and brings that experience to his writing. I can't recommend him enough

What do you mean by "Cancel culture" here and what specifically do you think might apply to Sowell?

[deleted]

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#153

Post by rukittenme »

deiznof wrote: post #88
x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Right, but I had no idea HN people were huge fans of the guy too.

Must be hard. Hating it when the ideas of a black author are supported, admired, and shape the political leanings of a white audience.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#154

Post by tathougies »

RoboticWater wrote: post #130
tlear wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is immeasurable, undefinable, unchangeable. As a propagandist you must take care to use things that can not be countered. Systemic racism is one of those. What is the systemic racism measure for Canada vs US? That is his point, you can use that stick to beat anyone and anything you want without having to supply a shred of evidence. Just keep repeating it and call everyone who disagrees racist or Uncle Tom.

If it were immeasurable and undefinable, then we wouldn't have studies showing disproportionate sentencing of Black people [1] or the persistent negative effects of redlining [2]. And if it were unchangeable, we wouldn't be able to construct studies to show the specific choke-points of racial inequality, nor suggest policy solutions to remedy them. > What is the systemic racism measure for Canada vs US? I don't under…

When it comes to redlining, sowell directly addresses it in in Vision of the Anointed. He points out that the kinds of houses blacks tend to purchase tends to be ignored in studies that find widespread discrimination.

For example blacks are much more likely to want to buy multi family homes. The income and other requirements for these are much stricter which is why they are denied loans more often.

Moreover, he points out that if blacks were being subject to stricter requirements then one would expect that they were less likely to default since the requirements are notionally to calculate default risk.

He points out that before the redlining legislation black and white default rates were broadly the same indicating that whatever criteria the banks used it fulfilled its main purpose of estimating default likelihood.

He then shows data that the anti discrimination legislation increased black default rates and questions whether you encouraging minorities to declare bankruptcy and enter financial ruin is really something to be desired.

Before you make blanket statements on the man you should be familiar with his stance on things. Your comment lacks the nuance that one is apt to find in any sowell book.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#155

Post by htk »

Someone should create a list of books that comprise a beginners manual of living in a modern society, and “Basic Economics” would fit perfectly in this list.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#156

Post by jwlake »

I've read a few Sowell books and I don't always agree with his conclusions but I do always enjoy the historical context he puts behind his arguments. I find most political pundits, journalists, etc to lack a grounding in history when they take opinions on various things. Sowell's books are usually give you a historical context and then the argument. It makes his books a good read even if you don't agree with them.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#157

Post by [deleted] »

justin66 wrote: post #80
deiznof wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that calling out systemic racism is like a Nazi propaganda tactic. Look up any of his other views on literally any social issues, it's just whatever Fox News-esque conservative would want to hear. Like, somehow it's not the government snatching people up in vans that is Nazi-like, it's actually the anti-racist protesters that are Nazi's to the genius brain of Thomas Sowell. How do people idolize this guy?

> The idea that calling out systemic racism is like a Nazi propaganda tactic. Look up any of his other views on literally any social issues, it's just whatever Fox News-esque conservative would want to hear. With regard to the Fox News-watching American conservative base and bad Nazi analogies, it's useful to keep in mind what you're dealing with. Grover Norquist said in an interview in 2003 that the estate tax is eq…

[deleted]

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#158

Post by SantalBlush »

sbuttgereit wrote: post #134
SantalBlush wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic Economics isn’t even required reading in an intro econ course. It probably has value for its alternative perspectives on a lot of economic concepts, but to say it’s “required reading for anyone who wants to claim they understand economic principles” is pretty demonstrably false.

Perhaps, but is that really a telling statement about the book or a more telling statement about the current state of academic economics?

It’s a more telling statement about the book. “My book is too edgy for academia” is a worn out trope used by pseudo intellectuals. The real reason Sowell’s book is not required is because it does not involve the necessary rigor or mathematical methodology when introducing economic principles. If people want to pretend that’s elitist, so be it. Antivaxxers do the same thing.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#159

Post by dnautics »

RoboticWater wrote: post #130
tlear wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is immeasurable, undefinable, unchangeable. As a propagandist you must take care to use things that can not be countered. Systemic racism is one of those. What is the systemic racism measure for Canada vs US? That is his point, you can use that stick to beat anyone and anything you want without having to supply a shred of evidence. Just keep repeating it and call everyone who disagrees racist or Uncle Tom.

If it were immeasurable and undefinable, then we wouldn't have studies showing disproportionate sentencing of Black people [1] or the persistent negative effects of redlining [2]. And if it were unchangeable, we wouldn't be able to construct studies to show the specific choke-points of racial inequality, nor suggest policy solutions to remedy them. > What is the systemic racism measure for Canada vs US? I don't under…

Redlining and sentencing disparities are institutionalized racism, not systemic racism.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#160

Post by ralusek »

markharper wrote: post #107
francisofascii wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any other book recommendations for a counter to Sowell's Basic Economics? It would be a good exercise to read his book and an alternative.

I'd second the other response's recommendation of Richard Wolff's work. He's a marxist and democratic socialist, so read his work understanding his perspective in relation to your own, whatever that might be. That being said, I found his book Competing Economic Theories on neoliberalism, keynsianism, and marxism to be very fair to all sides.

Richard Wolff's primary argument in favor of socialism is that your employer is stealing from you by making a profit off of your labor. He fundamentally does not understand how markets work.

I am a software engineer. I have a rate of pay that I consider to be more valuable than my labor, for which I will gladly exchange my labor and feel as though I have profited from the transaction. Prospective employers have an amount of labor output that they value more than a rate of pay, for which they will gladly exchange in an attempt to profit from the transaction. We engage in a mutual arrangement, wherein we both walk away having benefitted from the transaction. The fact that the employer has the capacity to profit from my output is not theft. In fact, I would feel absolutely horrible if my employer didn't profit from me at all, because I ALWAYS profit from them.

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