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ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

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Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#151

Post by black_puppydog »

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #141

My wrists ache badly if I type too much, despite all the adjustments I’ve made over the years. I’m currently using an Apple wired keyboard angled so the front edge is higher, with my hands floating above it or sitting on silicon rests. I also use Filco tenkeyless mechanical keyboards - one with blue and one with brown switches. I prefer the feel of these and make fewer mistakes, but I’m convinced they make my wrists…

Might not be the right time of^W^W year for this, but at hacker events like CCC there are always "bring your keyboard" type of events where you can play around with many different variants.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#152

Post by rayshan »

benji-york wrote: post #125
arka2147483647 wrote: post #108

The thing i like best about ZSA, is that they are selling products. Just buy, configure with a nice web tool. No soldering, assembly or programming required to make it work. All other Ergodox, or Ergodox alternatives, seem like much more work to get working the way you want. Anyway, the thumb clusters were my primary annoyance with my Ergodox, so i ordered a Moonlander. I hope it works out.

For another take on thumb clusters, check out the Diverge: https://unikeyboard.io/product/diverge/

Thanks for reminding me of this, really glad they're still iterating. We need more options with long-term companies and support. $393.40 shipped is too steep though, for that price I think the ergodox / moonlander is a better option.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#153

Post by nine_k »

nextos wrote: post #92
tom_ wrote: post #76

I wish people would just copy the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, but with better keyswitches. As things stand, every split keyboard with nice keyswitches has a different layout from every other, which is odd, considering how much this type of device relies on muscle memory to work. (Also, most of them miss one or more of F keys, symmetrical meta keys, standard navigation cluster layout, volume buttons - it's like they wa…

I love mechanical keyboards. My favorite switch is ALPS. But IMHO, the most ergonomic switches are low-travel ones. They increase my typing speed, reduce latency and make long sessions effortless. Luckily, low-travel versions of many good quality keyboard switches are being produced and developed more often now to cater the gaming market. For a simple, readily available option, I find the Apple Magic Keyboard more th…

Kalih Brown are quite soft (40g) and quite low-travel (1.1 mm to actuation). I wish even softer Kalih scissor switches were an option.

Kalih Blue are an option if you prefer to pound more (not offered with this keyboard, though). But I only find clicky switches acceptable if you're working from home, or have a personal office. Sitting next to someone else's clicky keyboard is not all that enjoyable.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#155

Post by sawaruna »

_ink_ wrote: post #126
sawaruna wrote: post #112

Split keyboards are really popular amongst the Japanese mechanical keyboard scene for some reason. Tons of people making and selling DIY split / ortholinear split kits.

Sounds interesting, do you have some links?

There isn't a great single resource I can point to, but try the twitter account Yusha Kobo[0], which is a keyboard shop in Tokyo. Not just their posts, but if you look at the feeds or likes of people they retweet, you should be able to find a bunch of examples.

[0] https://twitter.com/yushakobo

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#156

Post by nico_h »

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #141

My wrists ache badly if I type too much, despite all the adjustments I’ve made over the years. I’m currently using an Apple wired keyboard angled so the front edge is higher, with my hands floating above it or sitting on silicon rests. I also use Filco tenkeyless mechanical keyboards - one with blue and one with brown switches. I prefer the feel of these and make fewer mistakes, but I’m convinced they make my wrists…

Depending on the number of rows and columns you want there is quite a cottage industry of ergo keyboards.

I think the main ergo flat keyboard (staggered columns) with 3 rows 6 columns are the Gergo / Kyria / Corne depending on the number and placement of thumb keys (they can be found assembled to order).

For 3d / sculpted keyboards, this person is selling assembled to order Dactyl manuforms: https://dactyl.bigcartel.com/

A good reference for flat boards is https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/

via https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/f5h3d6/s...

Then for the sculpted keyboards, mostly the Dactyl/ Dactyl Manuform families there are a bunch of vendors. The cheapest one is in the first link. Otherwise one guy is currently selling some of his split on reddit's mechmarket.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#157

Post by cfontes »

wdgz wrote: post #100
cfontes wrote: post #91

I swear I don't mean to offend anyone, but it's insane that people pay this much for a keyboard, mouse, headphone, an so on. You can literally feed a family for a whole year in some countries with this money. Good ergonomics are awesome, macros are cool, but this is like a Channel Bag for nerds, if you like it awesome but don't deceive yourself into needing it. I love tech as everyone in here, I like my gizmos as wel…

I used to think the same way as you. Then I got RSI and the only thing I can type on now without excruciating pain is my $250+ ergonomic keyboard. The other day I typed a short password on my Corsair gaming keyboard (standard layout, full size) and I literally sprained my left wrist immediately. Honestly, after how much money I’ve spent trying to deal with my RSI (doctors, exams, physical therapy, home workout items…

Good to know! Fair point!

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#158

Post by nico_h »

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #30

This is pretty cool. I was thinking about ordering and building a dactyl manuform [1] after my latest upgrade, the kyria [2] which improved the inflammation in my index fingers, failed to truly solve my issues because they put my thumbs in a very contorted position. I love how you can rotate the thumb keys as its unnatural to have your thumbs press keys in the same direction as the rest of your fingers. Having starte…

There is this person selling assembled to order Dactyl manuforms: https://dactyl.bigcartel.com/

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#159

Post by cfontes »

banachtarski wrote: post #101
cfontes wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am among those people, 2 programming jobs, 12 hours a day typing non stop, for 15 years so far. I am probably super lucky but have never had an issue on my wrists and have used every single shitty keyboard you can think of. I love an ergonomic keyboard, but it costs 50 dollars maybe? This is not that, this is something else.

What's the point of judging how people spend money on the internet? Are you saying you are above reproach in your spending in every facet of life? You don't buy anything because you just enjoy it, or because it strikes your personal fancy? If so, good for you, but don't say things like "I don't mean any offense" and follow that up immediately with "I find it insane that..." The second statement is clearly intended to…

Fair comment! English is not my first language, and I absolutely didn't want to offend.

At least in my headI still think it's nothing close to " I hate you for buying this" what I wanted was " I don't understand why this thing sells. "

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#160

Post by ahelwer »

Tarsul wrote: post #138
ahelwer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The three most impactful things you can do to avoid wrist injuries are: (1) Ensuring your chair, desk, and keyboard are set up so your wrists are straight when typing (2) Using a split/tilted keyboard so your wrists do not need to rotate as much when you type (3) Using a vertical mouse so your wrist does not need to rotate as much when mousing You can accomplish all of this for very cheap. A bit more than you're spen…

I'd add (or even put on top): Work out. There's nothing better than working your muscles to prevent injuries. Even hand grippers help already.

Yes, this has also helped me (at one point my wrists were bad enough I had to start mousing with my non-dominant hand). It seems like pulling exercises such as deadlifts or pull-ups or just rock climbing in general help the most.
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