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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#151

Post by aboutBen »

apecat wrote: post #77
miles wrote: post #23

> "Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. ... Published Date: July 02, 2020" Perhaps Apple missed these? 2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... 2016: Former NSA emp…

Recent Apple laptops have a separate SoC dedicated to secure boot as well as making sure macOS has no direct control over that camera indicator light, and more https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/29/what-apples-t2-ch... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Silicon#T_series

If the T2 chip is compromised, then separate SoC protection is moot. The only true protection is a physical covering (like in the Lenovo) or physical kill switch (like the Purism laptops).

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#152

Post by napier »

> Downside of covering your MacBook camera: "If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances. Covering the built-in camera might also interfere with the ambient light sensor and prevent features like automatic brightness and True Tone from working."

Upside: a square of post-it or similar stuck over the camera gives you peace of mind assurance that this particular lens of the digital panopticon isn't watching you.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#153

Post by dividedbyzero »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #96

I don't understand this debate around blocking camera. If your laptop has already been hacked such that the attacker has access to disable the green light(if we could be disable by prevailed account in the worst case), wouldn't you have more serious things to worry about? I mean worst case they could film me nude or something.

That's correct, but it's not why I have a cover on my camera. I really like the peace of mind of knowing that my camera really is off during a meeting. I guess it's the same for many people, especially working from home without a dedicated office.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#154

Post by scarface74 »

dathinab wrote: post #108
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

Doesn't matter. For many people the trust in integrated laptop cameras has been thoroughly eroded especially in case of Macs. (From my experience by interacting with people not having much tech experience, limited to Germany, maybe also limited to the social cycle(s) I interacted with.) The paradox thing is that the same people who often don't trust webcams in Apple Laptops or Apple All-In-One PCs do not bother or ev…

Even though you could get far more information by hacking the built in microphone.....

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#156

Post by philwelch »

milesvp wrote: post #139
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is in the design: by not providing a hardware switch, all we have is trust. As we can see from the past, unfortunatly it's not enough.

Just so you know, switches in something as complicated as a laptop have a good chance at being connected to a processor , with firmware being the thing that determines what the switch does. So you still need trust, even with a physical switch. Source: write firmware for a living, and write drivers for physical switches.

It doesn’t need to be a switch. My current work laptop is an HP. It has a little plastic camera cover that slides back and forth to cover the camera.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#157

Post by warent »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #116
dathinab wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter. For many people the trust in integrated laptop cameras has been thoroughly eroded especially in case of Macs. (From my experience by interacting with people not having much tech experience, limited to Germany, maybe also limited to the social cycle(s) I interacted with.) The paradox thing is that the same people who often don't trust webcams in Apple Laptops or Apple All-In-One PCs do not bother or ev…

Maybe that's misguided and naive, but I pretty much trust my phone to protect me from bad actors taking over the camera; I'll have to trust the apps I use that have camera access to not spy on me, but those are few. Until relatively recently, any userspace app on my computer could freely access the camera and microphone, including background processes and malware, so that feels a lot riskier. There seems to be a perm…

This might be true for yourself as a technical savvy person. Camera covers are particularly important to people who are self-aware enough to realize they don't have the tech skills to keep bad actors from gaining access to their camera

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#158

Post by windexh8er »

vngzs wrote: post #30

If you're going to cover it, use a sticker, like the EFF stickers here[0]. They're reusable, so you can move it to the side for meetings. I used a hard plastic MongoDB-branded sliding camera cover on a couple laptops[1], and its presence appears to have contributed to backlight bleed like this[2]. [0]: https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set-ii [1]: https://www.amazon.com/C-Slide-Sliding-Computers-Chr…

Came here to say this. Have been using the EFF stickers for years and everyone always asks about them vs the kludgey plastic ones everyone wedges in there that Apple is making note of. I've used them in the past on my phones as well, but given the advent of multiple front facing cameras this has become more of a pain. I purchased some of this sticker material a while ago with the intent to try and laser cut some specific designs. This was a good reminder!

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#159

Post by pletnes »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #116
dathinab wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter. For many people the trust in integrated laptop cameras has been thoroughly eroded especially in case of Macs. (From my experience by interacting with people not having much tech experience, limited to Germany, maybe also limited to the social cycle(s) I interacted with.) The paradox thing is that the same people who often don't trust webcams in Apple Laptops or Apple All-In-One PCs do not bother or ev…

Maybe that's misguided and naive, but I pretty much trust my phone to protect me from bad actors taking over the camera; I'll have to trust the apps I use that have camera access to not spy on me, but those are few. Until relatively recently, any userspace app on my computer could freely access the camera and microphone, including background processes and malware, so that feels a lot riskier. There seems to be a perm…

My thoughts exactly. On my phone, I have to trust Apple. On my laptop, I have to trust everyone who wrote code I downloaded. That’s two quite different crowds.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#160

Post by soulofmischief »

If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances.

Doesn't this sound like an engineering oversight and not a user error? Why are camera covers not just part of the design? My phone camera physically retracts when not in use.

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