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Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

theinternetbytes.com

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Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#151

Post by boomlinde »

Spivak wrote: post #5
superasn wrote: post #2

Yes this has been a big issue for a very long time now. Google wants to push a release where it will display the hostname of the amp site even if the content is being served from google.com[1]. Mozilla (and Apple) are strictly against it and thank god for Mozilla. If Google had a bigger market share this would already be something we would have been living with. I'm sure there are better sources for this, but here is…

I don’t really think Google’s plan is that weird. And it would be amazing for decentralized networks, archiving, and offline web apps. Google can’t just serve nyt.com — they can serve a specific bundle of resources published and signed by nyt.com verified by your browser to be authentic and unmodified.

How is it not weird that I see a domain name in the URL bar that has nothing to do with the domain I actually requested content from?

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#152

Post by izacus »

rtsil wrote: post #74
quadrifoliate wrote: post #41

IMO the core point of the article is false. > To be blunt, this is a really dangerous pattern: Google serves NYTimes’ controlled content on a Google domain. No, "Google serves NYTimes' controlled content" is an oxymoron. Google controls the content that is served, and that's all your browser is verifying. Google could very well make the NYTimes content on there display something else and your browser wouldn't show a…

The pattern is dangerous because it trains the user to dissociate URL and legitimate content, and the best tool at our disposal against phishing is still the ability to use the URL to ascertain the legitimacy of a content.

URLs haven't been associated with legitimate content for a long time now, since most of the things come from giant CDN companies like CloudFlare anyway. What you're seeing in URL bar has very little to do with where the JS code executed on your computer is coming from.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#153

Post by Kiro »

mindfulhack wrote: post #112
nwsm wrote: post #107

This has been all over HN since amp was released, and this is a two paragraph article with no new info or opinion. https://hn.algolia.com/?q=google+amp

I suppose 328 votes so far show the usefulness of repeat discussions. This article is a catalyst to keep this one going. The votes prove that it's an important enough issue to continue talking about.

Not really. HN just loves to hate on AMP.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#154

Post by izacus »

kebman wrote: post #118
gsnedders wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Signed HTTP Exchanges, for Google to modify the content that is served, Google would need access to a private key for a certificate for nytimes.com, no? Either nytimes.com has handed over that key or Google would have to create a key/certificate for nytimes.com. Believing Google would maliciously issue certificates seems a stretch to me. I don't like AMP nor much of how Google has behaved with it ( http://exple.…

I don't get this. Clearly the contents is served by Google, and so they can do whatever they like with it. How is an end user going to know whether the message was signed before it was passed on or not?

How does the end user know now that a file from cdn.cloudflare.com is actually coming from NYTimes when it loads and runs code on their browser?

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#155

Post by jeffdavis »

Spivak wrote: post #5
superasn wrote: post #2

Yes this has been a big issue for a very long time now. Google wants to push a release where it will display the hostname of the amp site even if the content is being served from google.com[1]. Mozilla (and Apple) are strictly against it and thank god for Mozilla. If Google had a bigger market share this would already be something we would have been living with. I'm sure there are better sources for this, but here is…

I don’t really think Google’s plan is that weird. And it would be amazing for decentralized networks, archiving, and offline web apps. Google can’t just serve nyt.com — they can serve a specific bundle of resources published and signed by nyt.com verified by your browser to be authentic and unmodified.

It's completely moving away from the client/server model to something else.

Perhaps that's a great thing to do, but it's not something to do quietly.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#156

Post by izacus »

lultimouomo wrote: post #113
smabie wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Africa and the only internet I had was cellular and by the gb. Amp is a massive improvement over the extremely large web pages we now have to endure. It's also much faster to render, which makes a huge difference on the crappy Android phones that are everywhere. Hell, I'm using a $200 Android phone right now because my iPhone broke and browsing the web is painful on it. And with the terrible hauwei $40 pho…

But does AMP makes internet usable on those $40 phones? I have a recent mid-range $200 phone and pretty much the only website the regularly hogs my browser is Google News, which coincidentally is also the only one that uses AMP. It's anecdote, but in my experience AMP (or whatever else Google News does) degrades performance to an amazing extent.

Google News is far from being the only one using AMP and there's a massive difference in loading times and rendering speed for most news sites between AMP and non-AMP versions even on my 1GBit internet connection.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#157

Post by smabie »

toastal wrote: post #89
smabie wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Africa and the only internet I had was cellular and by the gb. Amp is a massive improvement over the extremely large web pages we now have to endure. It's also much faster to render, which makes a huge difference on the crappy Android phones that are everywhere. Hell, I'm using a $200 Android phone right now because my iPhone broke and browsing the web is painful on it. And with the terrible hauwei $40 pho…

As much as a smack my lips at a supported non-XML, S-exp language for markup, isn't this what Brotli's dictionary of all the bloated XML tags, et. al. sets out to solve with its compression?

Sure, but that's just another layer on a steaming pile of shit. The webpage is still super large, it still takes up ram, it still takes up cpu to decompress and compress, etc etc. It's the kind of solution one comes up with when they recognize that nothing can actually be done to solve the real problem.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#158

Post by [deleted] »

plplok wrote: post #23
IgorPartola wrote: post #12

I truly hope whoever keeps pushing AMP such as it is has to birth a hedgehog backwards. I mean, at least add some way to opt out of this shit. This is why I don’t use Google as my mobile search engine. I honestly still would if my browser allowed me to disable or bypass it, but nope. No extensions for me because Apple won’t allow for anything like that. /rant

I'm wondering about this as well? Who was it? I'm pretty sure there were many internal discussions as to why/how to push this change. I'm surprised that those haven't been leaked.

[deleted]
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